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Guest post: Why is society so ambivalent about stay-at-home mums?

607 replies

KateMumsnet · 26/02/2014 11:27

Historically women (and children) have always worked. The poor would either take their children to work with them, or leave them with extended families. At the other end of the scale, rich women would leave their children in the care of a nanny while they managed household staff and organised events - long before these activities became viable career choices.

What's changed is that there is now an expectation - or illusion - of choice in the matter. When I was growing up, we had a female prime minister, and Alexis Carrington was the most famous woman on TV. We were told that we could have it all – glittering career, thriving children and a happy marriage.

It was a lie. As adults, we discover that economic necessity, the needs of children and our own aspirations all pull us in different directions. Rather than 'having it all', we choose our path and passionately defend our decisions against the different choices, opinions and expectations of others. Someone, somewhere will always disagree.

Obviously, there's a tension for those who would love to make a different choice, but can't. For some, working just isn't worth it. Salaries can't compete with the crippling cost of formal childcare, and for many of us, family aren't on hand to help. For others, rocketing property prices and rents mean that often both parents must work to afford the roof over their heads and an acceptable standard of living. With the prospect of meagre pensions, tuition fees, care homes and future property prices, there's a strong chance my children might, at 25, wish I'd traded those extra games of Scrabble for a decent deposit on a flat.

Over the past eight years I've worked part-time, freelanced, stayed at home and run my own business. I gave up my “glittering” corporate TV career and moved out of London, back to the village I grew up in, after the birth of son number 2. Not one of those solutions has been perfect, none of them have been easy and I have beaten myself up over each and every decision.

But the decision to stay at home was the one that I struggled with most. Like squabbling siblings, what I wanted for my children, my own identity and my relationship constantly clashed. Enduring stereotypes are of either the dull but worthy women, who were relieved that finally nothing more was expected of them in terms of their career - or the wealthy, well-groomed types who rule the PTA with an iron fist. The woman who actively chooses to stay at home seems to stir a wealth of confused emotions in all of us.

And as a feminist, I couldn't help feeling that I was letting the side down. By the time I had children I was successful, financially independent and viewed my marriage as a partnership of equals. The notion that I could give it all up in favour of singing ‘the wheels on the bus’ and sorting the laundry seemed extraordinary. I was uncomfortable with being financially dependent on my husband and I didn't like what it did to our relationship (there was an argument about aubergines I shan't forget). I had grown up with my mother laying out my father's clothes in the morning, but had expected something different for myself: this was not what feminism had fought for; this was not my place. How could I bring my sons up to respect women and treat them as equals if I wasn't an equal partner in my own house?

And yet, I wanted to be at home with my children. I wanted to be the one that cuddled them, read them stories and watched them grow. I wanted to make them toast when they came home from school. I felt my children needed me - and for many women, no job is more important.

And what about the state's position on all this? It seems to be ambivalent at best; fundamentally, it views you in terms of economic worth. We have an ageing population and we need people of working age to pay for them. The fact that children need nurturing, educating, and caring for is overlooked. That future generation of voters is not important right now. Politicians might pay lip service to the value of carers, but the welfare system reveals the truth – they are a burden; they've made a ‘lifestyle choice’ and they aren't ‘pulling their weight’.

The government's answer is to institutionalise childcare; to lengthen school days and cut holidays. They seem to be arguing simultaneously that looking after children is worthless, and yet too important to be left to mere parents. This benefits no one, except employers who no longer have the hassle of negotiating flexibility. It certainly doesn't benefit children or families.

The result is that we all feel confused and a little resentful. Working women will label stay at home mothers as ‘lazy’ or ‘lucky’, and stay at home mothers will accuse working mothers of being ‘selfish’. Both sides feel guilt and resentment over the choices they feel they should have had but didn't - the nagging doubt that we should be providing more, either emotionally or financially. Round and round we go, constantly striving to do better and tying ourselves up in knots.

There are simple, albeit naive, solutions. Cheaper housing and childcare would make staying at home or working a genuine choice rather than a necessity, as would a working culture that is not defined by the hours you work but by the quality of the work that you do - enabling mothers and fathers to do their bit at home and away.

Maybe this is feminism's next task: to redefine how society views the role of caring, and to challenge the notion that ‘progress’ is always moving in the same direction. A stage on from 'women competing in a man's world' would be to elevate caring to a level at which it can also be seen as successful - equal to the providing bit. Then we could, perhaps, put down our defensiveness, and acknowledge that we're all just doing our best with the circumstances we have - and that, most of the time, that's good enough.

We may never see the day when all we're competing over is who raises the most emotionally stable and contented children - but it's a nice thought.

OP posts:
TheHoneyBadger · 02/03/2014 18:26

laura i'm an optimist (with the odd patch of depressive tendencies) but i think my chances of finding the several hundred k i'd need to buy the place and the money to live on to be there and enjoy it in peace are very slim. i'm 38, very able but not a good fit in the establishment. what i need is to find a way to be self employed or run a business and exit stage left from the 'world of work' culture. it is theoretically doable but... ?

i don't know. surviving seems optimistic lately let alone beating the odds and zooming past.

morethanpotatoprints · 02/03/2014 18:26

Laura

I do think that dc are better with a parent at home, but agree it shouldn't be the mother by default. I don't think its sexist.
Other people can think what they like and I can't argue they don't feel the same as me, its their opinion.
To me this has nothing to do with being a Feminist or moreover, from a feminist perspective its asserting choice.

morethanpotatoprints · 02/03/2014 18:29

Can I ask a question please.

If you work and you are doing so out of free choice and you know its right for your family, why would you feel guilty, or even let it cross your mind. Now I can understand why I would feel guilty because my belief system is the opposite, I don't understand.

TheHoneyBadger · 02/03/2014 18:32

agreed - guilty is the wrong word. what's to feel guilty about? the question should be are you happy? are you coping? is this working for you? etc. i go back to the it's not 'having it all' it's 'managing it all' for most of, it's 'doing' it all that's the problem. people only have so many hours in the day, so much energy and so much head space and as a parent your battery needs to be pumping energy to your child/ren too so we definitely need to keep it charged or we're buggered.

the violin piece (16ish mins long and merits headphones and closed eyes in my opinion) is

Offred · 02/03/2014 18:43

You don't know anything about my life and you have failed to read the limited information I posted. My point was not about you having made 'poor choices' it was that you had no right to be so judgemental and talk about my 'bad choices to have so many children so close together' especially since you aren't even correct about my situation and you haven't even read what I've posted.

My uni pays my fees now, the majority of the degree I will have paid for myself outright. The state doesn't pay my rent, I don't claim income support even though I'm entitled. But really even if that wasn't the case why shouldn't the state help me become a solicitor for a relatively short period of time rather than consigning me to a lifetime of low paid work when they would have to top up my income and also I would not pay as much tax.

Seriously, you can't see how you are being horrible but when I explain your logic in relation to yourself you launch into that massive defensive rant which basically ends with "blah blah I'm great people like me should get help they need but I'm going to judge other people blah blah"

Nasty, small minded and egocentric.

Offred · 02/03/2014 18:46

And how many times do I need to explain that what I want is to be able to do paid work. Many circumstances have prevented this from being possible. I've not chosen to be a SAHM, I've been denied an opportunity to work FFS.

TheHoneyBadger · 02/03/2014 18:54

please don't put 'bad choices to have so many children' in quote marks like that - it implies i actually said it when i clearly didn't. and the only personal attacks i'm reading on this thread are from you.

TheHoneyBadger · 02/03/2014 18:55

i have read your posts btw but have chosen (other than to say i'm sorry you've been through all that) not to go into it as it didn't seem the place and i also felt manipulated tbh.

TheHoneyBadger · 02/03/2014 18:56

i would appreciate it if you could stop calling me names and misrepresenting what i've said though please.

Offred · 02/03/2014 19:01

I've not called you names, I've referred to your posts being horrible, disgusting, small minded (the things you've said about me). You have said some horrible and personal things about me. If you have read what I've said then you must be deliberately misrepresenting what I've said and it makes your first disgusting attack even worse.

TheHoneyBadger · 02/03/2014 19:09

would you like to actually quote these awful things i've said to you rather than make them up and put speech marks around them?

TheHoneyBadger · 02/03/2014 19:17

as to the question why shouldn't the state help you to to become a solicitor as an adult (which you say it isn't anyway but ask the question) i would say because the state charges 18yos 9k a year to go to uni it would be inappropriate for it to then pay for a grown mother of four to do it and support her children in the interim. which as you say doesn't apply in your case anyway.

and yes i said it was taking the piss imo to complain that the state doesn't look after your children for free whilst you choose not to work so you can go to uni and get a better job. i know several parents who'd love to go to uni and be able to get a better job at the end of it but they can't afford to and it doesn't occur to them to think that someone else should pay for them to do so and look after their children whilst they do it. as you say the state isn't doing in that in your case. presumably you are independently wealthy or the children's father's are covering living costs?

scottishmummy · 02/03/2014 19:19

It would be interesting if op returned and commented on responses received

LauraBridges · 02/03/2014 19:21

morethan, I don't feel guilty . I could post here 50 ways children do better with high earning full time working mothers but I won't because it seems to cause stay at home mothers to cry into their pillows and I don't want to upset them although they might do better if they learned to grow a thicker skin. Perhaps there should be guilt for staying home really.

More interestingly let us find a way for MoreHoney to make her fortune or our daughters (if having enough not to work again is a good aim - remember plenty of those with no aim who are very rich tend to find that lack of need to strive makes them very unhappy and they seek drugs or drink just as the gin and tonic or prozac 1950s/2010s people at home sometimes do.

So the game plan to get your girls into high earnings so they can not work later if that is their aim... I am just one example - get the best A levels in your school and win university prizes in a decent very high paid profession. Work hard. Learn in in work you adore. Don't go part time or play second fiddle to some man. Seize the prize. Make a fortune, have a lot of children and lead a wonderful life . I recommend it. It is feminism. It is choice.

scottishmummy · 02/03/2014 19:24

Good post,Laura.and yes to not going on the mummy track or put man first just because

TheHoneyBadger · 02/03/2014 19:27

laura you get that feminism is about all women right? not just the one's who can get the best a level results in their school? i mean, you get that not everyone can get the best results (logically that's impossible even if everyone was academically gifted)? and you get presumably that an analysis of class has to be included in feminism? and an analysis of factors that effect 'choice' and 'agency' and limit it?

your plan sound marvelous for academically able, middle class or self motivated enough to aspire beyond her class' expectations, girls. what about the rest of them?

TheHoneyBadger · 02/03/2014 19:28

why feel the need to put them down scottish? why sneer at the 'mummy track'? why if a woman is happy to stay home with her children and doesn't want a career does she deserve your derision and contempt?

TheHoneyBadger · 02/03/2014 19:29

i'm not having a go laura but i think you've fallen the old meritocracy chestnut. it's a lovely idea but it doesn't fit with reality unfortunately.

Offred · 02/03/2014 19:30

"tbh i can't think of a model that would facilitate a woman producing 4 kids in quick succession and not wanting to work but wanting to be respected and have a voice at the same time and you clearly DON'T actually think combining kids and non related 'work' is child abuse as you've chosen to study. there's tail eating going on here."

I never said it was child abuse. I just said it isn't possible to do without some of the work suffering whether it is childcare or work tasks. Because all the things are work.

I never said I didn't want to work either. I've said repeatedly that I want to and am trying to get work.

You wrote that and claim to have read my earlier post, you think I am not entitled to a voice or respect because I've been the mug left caring for the children of bloody unworthy and disrespectful men. Really, really offensive and completely the same attitude you're complaining the govt have towards single parents.

You can't see how it is disgusting to say something like that? Really?

wordfactory · 02/03/2014 19:31

morethan because they say things that are loaded to make you feel undermined.

For example, having had years of working at home around my DC, I have recently taken up two pt roles outside the home. They barely impact upon my DC. And in any event my DC are 14! Yet still people ask if I'm worried about taking up these roles when they're about to embark upon their GCSEs as if DC need me available at all times, even when they're in school. The implication is that I should be worried. So of course I ask myself, should I?

Then of course DH bursts out laughing and points out how absurd it is Grin...and how no one ever asks him if he's worried.

Actually, I'm not against people regularly reassessing their choices. I think those that are bound by them and refuse to even countenance change are just a bit unimaginative and have backed themselves into a self perpetuating corner. But I really despair of women attempting to guilt trip other women. I mean, why? All they're doing is storing up heartache for the next generation of Mothers...

scottishmummy · 02/03/2014 19:32

Are you asking a question or taking a pop.Dont paraphrase me erroneously
Yes the pt route,mummy track is generally the female option
men generally don't go pt or give up stuff

scottishmummy · 02/03/2014 19:36

Badger,if I were you I'd direct ire at notion women shouldn't be encouraged to work when parents
That's way more sinister than observing its women who generally return pt
It's a statement of fact,more women go pt when they become parent

TeamWill · 02/03/2014 19:59

sm My DH went compressed hours ( dropped a day) but he actually feels he has gained a hell of a lot more.( time with DC)
He has a partner who also contributes ( work fulltime over 3 days).
Does anyone ever ask men what they really want. My DH would have bitten my arm off to have a years leave to care for DC - NO chance !

Does anyone ever question what the affects of DF working endless hours does to them or their relationship with DC.
Choice is actually a very precious thing that very few parents have.

scottishmummy · 02/03/2014 20:02

That's encouraging,it's not the norm.great it was accommodated

TheHoneyBadger · 02/03/2014 20:17

i can't defend myself against things i haven't said. how you choose to interpret my words is up to you. the fact that i see going to uni rather than working as a choice does not make me disgusting, just on this planet. i'm sorry i really can't be bothered to keep discussing anything with someone who is just calling me disgusting. that bit you've quoted doesn't say what you say it says.