Need to re-adjust expectations of ds about school - help

[DidEinsteinsMum]

Ok ds is 4 G&T prob, Apergerus poss. He expects school to be sit down learning.
He had an individual visit for 1 hour prior to the normal visit schedule a fun phonics thing. He has been complaining it was boring and is already making reluctant noises about going back next week for his 2nd official visit (this time without parents) His dad reports that he seemed to enjoy it. I suspect he enjoyed it on face value but later felt it did not fulfil his stimulus requirements. He is a high stimulus input kid. I know the school is good and have a plan in place for him once they get past the initial induction aspects in sept.

How do i work on the fact that

1. Reception is a bit of work and a good chunk play?
2. It will get better when he starts properally
3. Convince him he wants to go next (thus avoiding the meltdown otherwise expected)
4. Get him to understand that most children want to play and not sit down to lessons at reception (AIBU?)
5. Do i need to talk to the school about ds' feelings - they have been dealing with it since the CAF voted them best to deal.
6. Oh and the good old one : his peers are not stupid!

Maybe i am worrying too much? feel free to kick my butt into perspective

What tosh Dad, sorry to be blunt and all but really!
Social skills are the cornerstone of nursery/preschool/reception.
small children need to shown consistently, how to share, be respectful of their peers, understand when is an appropriate time to sit still, speak up, to understand and empathize with others. Those basics will allow them to make and develop relationship which ultimately are what will make your child happy at school. If they don't acquire those skills early, they struggle to apply them easily and naturally as they progress through school.
I would much prefer to have a happy, social, well behaved, well mannered, well liked, child than one who is galloping through the ORT stages!
Also it amazes me how many parents on this site, think they know better then the school, yet have no problem laying the blame with any problem firmly at the schools doorstep. You know, your child is only at school 6 hours a day 5 days a week! That leaves you plenty of time to push them if that's your bag of tricks!
DEM, IMHO you are creating a problem that isn't there yet! your son has expressed boredom at the idea of school based on 1 visit. His ideas of what school should be must come from you and I think you should consider bigging up up much fun your son will have, new friends he will make and then see if there is actually a problem in Sept!
Your school is aware of issues that your son may have and have been specified as best to deal. Perhaps it's a good idea to let them.

of course it is always possible that an individual teacher may be getting the balance wrong

on the other hand, if the OPs ds has suspected Aspergers this is probably an area where he will need extra support

just as my ds needs extra support with his motor control - however much he hates it and would prefer to do the things he is better at - precisely because this is the area where he is weak

what I believe every child is a balance: being allowed to spend enough time at things he feels he is good at to boost self-esteem, but also being made to work on his weak areas

Dad, social skills are an important skill for a child to learn and it's best that they learn them early if they can't naturally pick them up. Life at school is no fun if they can't make friends because they don't have these skills. A child that runs into games/interupts won't make friends easily and school can be a hard place for a child when they are lonely. A child that is different will stand out, sometimes they are magents for bullies, they can annoy the hell out of the teachers so if the OP and the school can support her son and prevent this then it's a better thing IMO. As a parent of a child that is very bright but lacks social skills, my life has been hell. I can support him at home, show him the way to go but if he's not supported at school then it's alot like bashing your head against a wall, your child is labelled as naughty/rude/obnoxious, even when you know that they are not because this is how he comes across. In a safe environment where he feels valued, supported and listened to he's a different child.
Social skills are on par with academic skills. No one will want to employ someone that can't work with others, no matter how high their ability. It's not always something that is picked up over time so it's best to help this child now.

Cory - that is my friend's biggest concern - that the in the school in the States there is no balance. The brain and intellect is all. There is no 'fun', there is no emphasis on friendship, nor on how others feel.
She worries that they just leave even more socially isolated than when they arrived. .

I've got a special deal on tomatoes in this corner: £1 for a sackful. Come one, come all. Pay £2 and get three sacks!

(the guy next to me has an offer on spectacles if anyone's interested )

don't need spectacles to see that if a child has suspected Aspergers he is likely to need support with the social side

I have a deal on mirrors - anyone for a little self reflection?

From experience I would say that social skills are absolutely vital for a child with AS/ASD, no matter how bright they are. Learning how to get along with others, share ideas, take turns, and work as a group become increasingly important as they work their way up the school.

If your ds has problems with motor skills then a martial arts class can be a great help, particularly if you're also looking for something sporty. Not all clubs will take young children but some of the non-contact clubs are happy to take 4yr-olds.

Piano lessons are also a good choice. Apart from the actual playing and learning the various techniques my ds1 has really enjoyed experimenting to see how all the various aspects of the music fit together.

DAL has it not occurred to you that this is a gender issue?
Females, generally, value social skills and since this section is mainly filled with female posters and most Primary teachers are female then it is not surprising that they bang on about social skills.
However, the world of work is dominated by men who like to Get Things Done and pay by results. (I could digress at this point and talk about the glass ceiling and wonder how much it is the fault of males or of females, but I won't.) Social skills are not everything: there jobs out there for people who know loads of geeky stuff but are lacking in charisma. I agree that life is probably easier if one has mounds of friends and contacts but it is not absolutely essential. There is a niche for everyone.

Had to have a few days away to sort RL out and have only just got back to this.

DAL: What i am trying to do is create a balanced child. There is no point in ignoring the areas where he is weak. it could result in another Einstein -who was amazingly gifted but totalling incapable in functioning in RL with bouts of psychological problems.

The only piece of advice that i have been given (when he was 2 years old) was to focus of the weaker skills and try to keep things as balanced as possible. Large diferentials can, and have documented evidence, have major consequences as the child develops.

We have tried to balance the good the bad and the ugly with ds and have had various levels of sucess. i will admit to feeding information for the peace and quiet and the opportunity to sleep. But have also encouraged as much normal child activity as possible. He is an outdoor child and spends hours on his bike, skate board and other bits. The Social skills inability is deverstating to Ds and regularly have to pick up the pieces because he has misjudged and resulted in disaster. We are working on this and the school have a plan to continue doing so.

My biggest problem is that ds can be a stuborn toad and once he decides he doesnt like something there is no changing his opinion, and any attempts to do so are highly coragous and risk damage. So what i was trying to assertain was how to keep his expectations in line with what was actually going to happen so that this could be avoided. Preparation is key to him. if he knows what is going to happen he is fine and whilst i mix this up and sometimes keep him on his toes. I do try to keep some stability.
This is hard when you have no eexperience of reception except that of my own which was far too many years ago and before the national curriculum kicked in.

I would love (in one respect) to wave a magic wand and to have a normal child who will happily go off and play with toys rather then turn round and want to know the point of it. Some one who will accept a basis explanation and sleep and enjoy life for what it is. Unfortunatly i have a learning obsessed child who what to know how and why everything works and what the point of things are. I have tried as much as possible to steer away from overloading one topice (although have failed on some occassions) I have also tried to give him information in a fun way - history in a visit to a re-enactment form, hands on museums etc. Right now i also have a child who is showing signs of memory damage due to an injury sustained a month ago, and cant remember anything you tell him even 5 mins ago. so here I end.

I think it would probably be a good idea to have a chat with the teacher asap, maybe ask if you could come into the school for a morning to see how they work. In particular, it would probably be helpful if you could get the teacher to explain the point of the play they do- as a previous poster pointed out, it is all geared to learning goals, not just random play. THat might help you to make sense of it to your ds and make the whole experience less unsettling.

fembear, I think DES's concerns are not so much about what will happen once her ds gets to the workplace, but how to make things bearable to him in reception

and while you are still at school social skills are important; and for him to understand why things are happening will be the most reassuring thing

cory, spectacles are needed by anyone who read my post and figured my recommendation was the banning of SS, or that SS are not necessary in life.

And my friend here has dropped his price on spectacles - they just aren't selling today as people are all buying mirrors and admiring themselves.

Litchick, I'm doing well - happy family, good friends, adequate social skills for what I do. That I had a bad period in my past - crime, drugs, homelessness- had nothing to do with social skills and everything to do with extreme boredom in school year after year. Contrary to popular belief here, I don't lay the blame at the teachers - they had classes of 60+ in my country. They couldn't cater for me if they knew how to and were really keen (and some were).

"You say that your son became disruptive and 'cocky' which again you put down to boredom but it sounds like poor socail skills to me. Not caring about others, belittling them ie lack of empathy is the baseline for this."
I don't buy that. DS was coming along brilliantly socially for which I've expressed my deep gratitude to the teachers. They did do a stellar job in that respect. His Head accepts that the emerging disruptive behaviour was directly linked to his level of boredom. So, sorry, no SS to blame there.

"Social skills are the cornerstone of nursery/preschool/reception."
Maybe. Or maybe it's a load of BS. (The "cornerstone" bit, I mean.) I repeat my recommendation that SS is something you keep developing through school and that not all children need that as the cornerstone in their Reception Year. Some need more help with SS than others and, just like with reading and maths, some may be so far ahead in SS that they're already where the rest of the class will be in a couple of years.

DEM, I don't envy your situation but I'm confident you'll find what's best for your child, how to approach the areas he's weak in and when is the most appropriate time to do so. If he is, as you say, a "stubborn toad", then getting him onside first would be my priority. And that may involve convincing him that school is not going to be six hours of being forced to play.

"I would love (in one respect) to wave a magic wand and to have a normal child who will happily go off and play with toys rather then turn round and want to know the point of it."
What is normal? Why is that not "normal"?

"Some one who will accept a basis explanation and sleep and enjoy life for what it is."
Is constant learning not enjoyment for him? You want to create broader enjoyment, want him to discover that he can derive pleasure from other activities and that's good. I don't believe you'll achieve it by taking away what he enjoys now.

But, like I said, I'm not a psychologist/SENCO etc., I am just a parent so, unlike some experts, I don't profess to know what best for your little boy.

"what I believe every child is a balance: being allowed to spend enough time at things he feels he is good at to boost self-esteem, but also being made to work on his weak areas"
I couldn't have put it better. And social skills is just one of those things.

"if he wants to know what the point of things is -you can tell him with re to school.

ie 'the teacher will put out x for you to play with- it will help you learn y'"

I like that! To change his expectations you have to first look at things with his eyes.

"fembear, I think DES's concerns are not so much about what will happen once her ds gets to the workplace, but how to make things bearable to him in reception"

My comment were aimed more at DAL's 'tomatoes' posting of 23:41 last night, not the OP. However, it worth remembering that not everyone hits the milestones at the same time. A friend of mine has a DC with aspergers (which was not DX until quite late) who always struggled with the social aspect but came good when they got to early-adulthood. Friend is delighted with the progress that DC is making at Uni.
It would be nice if OP's DS had a good experience of Reception but it's not the end of the world if he doesn't.

milestones is a good point- you can't expect everybody to be in the same place at the same age

but as DAL has made it very clear that he wants his ds to have a good experience of school, I think it is reasonable for the OP to expect the same

and feeling out of it because you don't understand the play or the social dynamics can be just as discouraging as feeling out of it because you are bored by the academic side

"it's not the end of the world if he doesn't. "
Exactly. And talking about the world - a large part of it manages quite well without social skills being taught in reception at all!

And we're importing our doctors, computer scientists and nuclear physicists in droves from there, most of whom do all right socially.

So, yes, let's teach social skills but let's not get carried away with it.

am surprised at you of all people saying that it's not the end of the world if the OPs ds does not have a good experience of reception, DAL

you are the one who has defended your own son's right to have a good experience of school and outlined the dangers of a child being put off forever when he is not happy at school

Exactly the opposite actually.

But I see that my earlier wording suggested I'm happy for him to be unhappy, that's not the case. I meant to qualify it and hit "Post" without editing.

I'd like her DS to have a happy experience even if it doesn't fit what others think constitutes a "good experience". I'd like him to be happy in reception and if lack of pressure to fit in socially makes him happy then that's the way I would go.

And if a child ends up not happy in reception, that's not the end of the world; s/he can recover from it. Look to the future.

See what you mean. My own experience was that it was not pressure from the teachers to fit in socially that made life difficult, but my own inability to get on with my peers so that they kept getting angry with me for reasons I did not then understand, though I do now. But naturally that can vary from case to case.

I think fluffybunny had good advice - steer away from school stuff as far as is possible. Music, sport, chess, maybe a language would all be good things to try that are also intellectually challenging (OK maybe not sport, but it's still a challenge and a good thing to do if you can find something - if not take him swimming once or twice a week yourself & buy a book on teaching children to swim & follow the instructions).

I thought piano was a good idea, but many teachers won't take a child so young. If you can't find one that will try violin (or even recorder) - music is a great outlet as a bright child gets older and one where it doesn't seem to matter too much how good you are. Ditto chess.

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