Need to re-adjust expectations of ds about school - help

[DidEinsteinsMum]

Ok ds is 4 G&T prob, Apergerus poss. He expects school to be sit down learning.
He had an individual visit for 1 hour prior to the normal visit schedule a fun phonics thing. He has been complaining it was boring and is already making reluctant noises about going back next week for his 2nd official visit (this time without parents) His dad reports that he seemed to enjoy it. I suspect he enjoyed it on face value but later felt it did not fulfil his stimulus requirements. He is a high stimulus input kid. I know the school is good and have a plan in place for him once they get past the initial induction aspects in sept.

How do i work on the fact that

1. Reception is a bit of work and a good chunk play?
2. It will get better when he starts properally
3. Convince him he wants to go next (thus avoiding the meltdown otherwise expected)
4. Get him to understand that most children want to play and not sit down to lessons at reception (AIBU?)
5. Do i need to talk to the school about ds' feelings - they have been dealing with it since the CAF voted them best to deal.
6. Oh and the good old one : his peers are not stupid!

Maybe i am worrying too much? feel free to kick my butt into perspective

I agree with fluffybunny. It is very easy to stimulate in areas where you know he is gifted, and very often this means that other areas are left out. A truly gifted child does not need to know about photosyntesis at four, it might be more useful for him to teach him social skills, let him play, learn through play and interact. If you can, try let him take up a sport, or playing an instrument. Music is especially useful for a mathematically gifted child.

We left all these areas out, and our son was doing negative numbers and currency exchange and countries when he was 4. We had microscopes and telescopes, and spent time on his maths and science interest, because it was easy.

Now, age 7, we have relaxed all that, he is doing brilliantly in school, but he has social problems, and problems with empathy. We have focused on sports, he plays football (team sports), martial arts (self control), and skiing (for the adrenalin junkie in him). He is currently having a break from his violin, so he can spend time interacting with friends, and learn how to behave and how not to behave. His violin teacher said he was very gifted, he could easily write music just from hearing it, and it was enough to hear something played once, and he could play it.

Good luck!

Dont be too hung up in his giftedness. There is a little boy in there, too!

A little boy who has been working on social skills through social role play for years because his inability to interact like other children has destroyed his confidence to the point where he relies on education to feel safe.

OMG light buld moment - this is actually the basis of the issue isnt it.

I'm highly educated (degrees etc) so can talk to ds about academic things, I can't teach him social skills very well though so this is the learning curve for both of us.

School has been good for ds - he has been given additional responsibility in some areas (like being made computer monitor - a crafty way to get around the fact that he was too young for ICT crew, a way to let him legitimately have more time with a computer and also a way to socialise him a bit - make him solve other children's problems etc.)

Ever child has 2 goals on their desks - some children have 2 academic goals, others (like ds) have 2 social goals. We have him playing for the school football team largely so he can be rubbish at something. He did cry for the first three sessions when things didn't go his way but we worked through them and he now enjoys trying hard.

Ds hated phonics but then realised they would help him spell hard words. He also realised when he understood them and passed the test he wouldn't have to do them any more.

He hated being on a reading scheme, until they got to the books with plays in them and he got to put on a show.

Basically he has a teacher who tells him why they are doing something - and then he gets caught up in the how and forgets about the what so much.

My revalation this week was that i was probably aspergers. A huge shock to me, but a mutal friend of me and ex said "And you only just found this out?" I have relied on people with the skills to help. My sister has done so much work with him to get him to the point where he can if pushed do imagination play if led by some one else or initiate it if it is factual.
I know from my own experience that school was hell for me. I was the geeky weird one who never spoke to anyone. I didn't like them, their moral values or their activities -why should i? It is my wish that he should have a better experience of school - especially considering the psychological damage done by his nursery experience. I am also really not very keen on the violence that accompanies him not wanting to do something and would rather address issue in advance than battle it out when it occurs. I am undeniably a chicken [chicken emoticon]

Ds now has a therapist for his nursery experience so it ceases to be a happy memory for either of us. Some people just have no idea of the effect they can have on a child's life.

I'm still saying your son needs help socially rather then academically at the moment DidEinsteninsMum. Maybe pop to the GP and ask for a referal?

Hit my head on that wall so many times that not only do i have concussion but the wall now has a dent School is actually the people nominated by the medical profession to deal with it. i think i am going to have to tell them he doesnt want to go and see what happens...Problem is that i know it is only going to be these visits and the settling in period. i believe the school when they say that they will deal with it. but I do really want to try to avoid doing any additional damage during that period. I dont want to stop him going to the visits as they are an important part of getting ready to start school. equally I dont want to set myself up for i dont want to so i am not going nonsense, and I think he will benefit from being in the same boat of not sure what is going on ashis peers. Just need to figure out the balance of emphasis....

...

Hmm. I'd be tempted to look for a private school that has experience in helping children with aspergers/social skills problems. The NAGC have a helpline with a psychologist, you can always give them a call for advice aswell. There's alot of structure in a private school, some kids realy thrive from the strict timetable and firm boundaries.

The biggest problem there is the oldest in the book -money - private schools are not a consideration when i am currently living with parents as can't afford rent on a desperatly needed space of own

Hmm. The LEA would have a G&T coordinator, the school will have a senco, your best bet would be to work with them. Be honest. Try the NAGC helpline aswell, they can really help.

It's not really any use having a settling in period if it's going different to when he actually starts is it?

Couldn't he just skip the settling in and go full time at the appropriate time?

NAGC helpline has been excellent. They helped us advocate for DD at a previous school...they then helped us find a new school for her that was a member of the NAGC! Well worth phoning then even to just ramble on at them.

If the school has been nominated as the best to deal, then that is who you should be speaking to... Go and explain all your worries and concerns and ask for help. I'm sure they will have ideas / techniques in place and it may well be they say don't bother with settling in.
Word of warning... I'm sorry you didn't have a good time at school but please don't let your experience taint/affect his. He is not the same as you.
I also hope you have taken the point of many posters saying that you should really concentrating on his social skills. I see it's hard to join clubs, but have you done any playdates with children who will be in his class? Now the weather is nice you can suggest meeting in the park for an hour.

To tire him mentally - how about chess?
we taught DS because we found he needed mental and physical exercise each day to keep us all sane!

DadEintstein,

My DS at 4 was GCSE Maths and doing some A'level science topics. So unfortunately I have seen it all and all school will do is help him to socialise and improve his handwriting - when he eventually gets round to writing! I'd be surprised if two years from now he is either being homeschooled or in a private school unless you're content for him to learn vitually nothing for the next 6 years and view school as a form of day care!

When I said private school I meant on a scholarship.

Just got back to this. I think piano lessons are an excellent idea.

So what is it in particular that you think he won't cope with?

1. Change?
2. Boredom?

If it is change, then we all need to deal with it at some point and you might find it's easier for him to handle all in one go (we have this with DD at the moment who is changing schools- I don't think she would have coped if she had done the entrance exam last October with everybody else! She definately handles change better in one big move)

Is it the boredom factor? If so, the only thing that has got DD through KS1 is being a stunning reader & able to provide her own extension work through both fiction and non-fiction! Without this she/we would have been sent round the twist!
Although it is important to be patient in lessons where you know it all already, it is also important to make use of your strengths- Nobody told Yehudi Menuhin or Andy Murray to wait for everybody else to catch up! Carry on making sure your child is stimulated- a love of learning is the greatest gift you can give your child even if it does cause problems socially. They have many more social problems if they're bored than if you continue to stretch them & reading will encourage the imagination too.

Hope some of this helps!

Everyone seems to emphasise the social skills. I'm going to take a contrary stand. Everybody, throw your tomatoes after you've read the post in full.

Bear in mind that I'm not a teacher, not a SENCO expert, not a psychologist, so I could be completely wrong on this.

But it may be that this social skill stuff is OTT, overrated, overdone and not worth worrying about so much so early.

Social skills is one area where Reception teachers are usually very good. But it may be something teachers concentrate on so they can do less teaching

Seriously, though, if he were my child I'd be tempted to ignore all that "pressure" to fit in socially and focus first on keeping him happy. If that takes all sit down work initially then all sit down work is what I'd give him. Social skills will come eventually. Trying to get children to a GCSE in social skills is what Reception seems to be about. Your priorities needs could well be different. Getting him to those social skills may require, counter-intuitively, that you don't force them on him just yet.

I think social skills are extremely important. If a child doesn't learn how to interact with his peers at an early age then when will he learn those skills?

To OP where does ds get the idea that lessons should be sitting down? Ds (5) is bright but no exceptional. He expects proper explanations and won't be fobbed off. He understands that school is both for learning different subjects and learning social skills. Most children want to have friends and learning how those friendships work is an important (and usually overlooked) aspect of reception.

Dad, the social skills are the bit I really wish I had had more support with. Am actually ok as an adult, but had to work very hard to self-teach myself that; I would have been a lot happier if that had been catered for too.

Not throwing tomatoes, just saying that for me the proud stance that I was fine in myself and didn't need social skills because my academic persona was good enough (which is what I kept telling myself throughout school) did actually succeed in making me rather unhappy.

(Not to mention how important social skills have been to me as an adult academic.)

Social skills are not the same as fitting in.
You can be very different and still have lots and lots of friends. However, you do need social skills to make them.
Who would want to learn five languages but have no-one to talk to?
Social skills are about manners, sharing, compassion, decency and respect.
Without those you are a lost soul. No-one will ever like you, worse still, you will never learn to like others.
And social skills are a 'gift' like any other, be that intelligence, sporting or musical talent. Some people are born with them and have a wonderful advantage. Some people are just not very able and have to work very hard on them.

As for sitting down to lessons it's always worth pointing out that many gifted children are home educated and they most certainly don't do any 'lessons' in that way. It doesn't hold them back at all.

Have a look at my posts and decide my level of SS but I reckon I've done pretty well in life

If you notice, I didn't recommend banning SS in Reception. But my take is that they talk far too much about it. SS is something you keep developing through school. There may even be a good argument for not doing too much of it in Reception.

DD1 was very social, made friends easily, shared, got along with other children well, had been in full time nursery for a while. DS was the opposite - he hadn't been in nursery long, was very shy, wouldn't mix, preferred to sit in a corner doing some maths and if he was forced on to the playground would just walk around on his own and not talk to anyone. When DS was in R we asked the teacher why he was doing boring Maths work and they replied that they were focusing on his SS and we, knowing DS, nodded sagely at the time and said, yes, that's a good idea.

When DD1 was in R we asked why she was doing such boring work in Literacy, was being giving reading books well below her level etc and this teacher said the same thing as the previous one! they were focussing on her social skills. We were less impressed this time. (This teacher has attitudes about evening out kids of middle-class parents similar to lijaco's according to some reliable inside information.)

I'm just saying it's possible the SS banner is over used. In the OP's case, my suggestion is that she consider the possibility that a big focus on his SS skills may not be the best thing at this time.

DAL - to be frank the social skills you wield in your posts are appalling.
And you say you've done very well in life, but yet your youth was blighted by drugs and homelessness. Sorry, but that's awful. You must have been so very, very unhappy, my heart goes out to you.
You are adamant that the cause of your unhappiness was your boredom at school and you blame your teachers. I wonder if your lack of social skills may not have been a major factor, also.
You say that your son became disruptive and 'cocky' which again you put down to boredom but it sounds like poor socail skills to me. Not caring about others, belittling them ie lack of empathy is the baseline for this.
To be honest you come across as 'cocky', as someone who can't learn anything from others, who puts no value on respect for others. So waddya expect.

I'll share a small story with you. Last summer I went with my mate to a special school in America for the gifted. Her son has profound talents but is also profoundly unhappy.
I was dazzled by the place. The kids were learning five languages, they were in discussions with Nasa, they had regular seminars from the top guys at MIT.It as an invite only school and children from all around the world attend.
When we left my friend wept. When she finally calmed down she told me what she saw. 'Lots of children who will never have a a life.' And the thought of it for her son broke her heart.
All she wants for her DS is to be happy, to have friends and to enjoy his life.