Gifted & talented should be stopped!

[lijaco]

I think this should be stopped it isn't accurate, it isn't fair and parents become self obsessed with it. Learning then becomes pressure for kids from parents to be top. If you didn't you wouldn't have this section. STOP IT!

roisin it is the exclusion t6hat g & t can bring to children is what motivated me to start this thread really.

snorkle i agree with you

Interesting debate. What worries me is also the 'in' and 'out' grouping involved and the impossibility of having a meaningful and non-exclusive boundary demarcating who is G & T and who isn't (top x % is hardly a meaningful).

I'm also unsure about having G & T stuff as added extras after hours as it doesn't deal with the normal hours in the classroom which will be just as appropriate or unnappropriate as before.

At primary/junior I was assessed as being 5 years ahead of my peers. My mother just hoped I would 'become more ordinary' and ignored the issue. There were no books for me to self-access - I relied totally on school for information and external stimulation. The consequences have taken decades to deal with.

I've been reading these posts as I wonder what could or should have been done differently and what I would want to happen if dd has any of the same issues. My overall thought is that the home environment is the most importnat buffer. If the parents are sympathetic and supportive without being pushy (does anyone need to push a gifted child?) that is the most important thing.

As for school - I'd hope that needs could be met without a formal grouping other than the usual streams/sets. As someone commented - the system has to cater to everyone and no-one will can a tailor-made curriculum although I do think something should be done to support different abilities. I can see though, how in more difficult schools people might think a G & T label might motivate less advantaged students - not sure if that's really true though?

It's not just supportive though. Parents need to be able to offer opportunities. Dd was "banned" from a task in geog today (Y8 and vv emotionally bright but not G&T unlike her sister) - it was EU and capital cities/rivers etc. Dd knew capital of Slovakia, Finland blah blah. I was more shocked that others didn't - thought that was the kind of thing everyone discussed at home without even thinking.

Lol Swedishmum. I remeber when I was 11 we had an oral class test on 35 capital cities. I thought it was only fair to let the others get some so waited until no-one else could answer. They got London, Paris and Rome. That left me the other 32. I was a legend for a week

Like you, I was pretty shocked though

Learning for example capital cities and knowing them off by hart doesn't really measure giftedness but a very good memory. you had the opportunity to learn them from input at home. Some children never realise their potential even though exrtremely capable as they dont get the opportunity at home.

i'm interested in the issues regarding putting children into higher age group schooling. my younger brother's birthday is 2 September and my parents went to a lot of effort to get him into the school year above that he would have automatically entered becuase they felt he was ready for school etc. My mother now regrets it because she thinks he would have got far more out of his education had he been more emotionally mature. Bearing in mind that his educational achivements include an Oxbridge degree, her commments apply to his overall experience - and she does have comparatives based on her own and her other children's experience.

her view is that whilst accelerating children at primary level might help in the short term, the costs at the end outweigh that. children don't need to be bored - there's always more breadth to any curriculum that can be accessed so that they move on with their peers in terms of age group.

Did anyone claim knowing capital cities was gifted? We were swapping anecdotes and swed actually made it very clear she didn't claim this to be a mark of giftedness. You need to take a chill pill. And read more carefully - I did not have 'input from home' - that was the whole point of my earlier post and why I am interested in the g & t initiative.

I think the whole thing is abit bizarre to be honest.MY Ds goes to a grammar school so does that mean nearly half of the class is gifted ? Utter b*llocks !!

acinonyx i didn't say that swede was claiming that knowing capital cities was a sign of giftedness. My point was that some children memorise things very well and come accross as further ahead than other children. Where as some are further ahead but their potential is never realised. I am chilled out I love it on here very entertaining!!
I wouldn't post on here if it wasn't so entertaining.
We all have different opinions and we have a right to them without digs.

isnt 'gifted' different to being 'academic'? learning and apply the rules is different to making the rules if that make sense. both are relevent.

Gifted is different to being academic in the literal sense. Being academic at school means that you are in the top percentage for achievement so are labelled gifted and talented.

So ask your MP to campaign to get the label removed, and we can go back to having 'truly exceptional' children!
I have children at both ends of the educational spectrum - provided their needs can be met by their teachers and support staff and they are happy, I have no complaint.
My DD's school doesn't tell parents whether they have been labelled G&T - I just know that she needs to access the junior school's library because there is nothing left to read in the infants', that her spelling and grammar are frequently better than mine, and that complex maths is 'fun'.
Posters on this forum tend to understand the social and emotional difficulties she sometimes has and help me to find ways to be a better parent; in the same way that the SN threads help me with my DS.
I still don't quite 'get it', Iijaco (sorry, v. tired at end of teaching week!) - is your gripe with the term 'G&T'? Our local secondary has an 'accelerated' stream for 30 pupils in each year group - it couldn't be more obvious that they are the 'G&T' group; why should they not be allowed to be taught at a somewhat more appropriate level for their needs? Just maybe the one or two pupils in there who are still disaffected will turn out to be the next Hawking!

My son is 18 now and was similar to your dd because he had nothing left to read in the infants and had to get his books from junior school. He achieved level 6 in his sats in year 6. Once he hit secondary school children that didn't achieve as he had in primary had levelled or taken over him by year 11. Very naturally talented musically though.

My gripe is with the accuracy of the labelled gifted and talented depends how you measure it and when. Teaching styles etc. The exclusion that it can cause etc etc.

Money spent, natural talent or pushed to the limit, or lots of money on extra tuition by parents so then more of an opportunity than a fair system. The label really it splits children into distinct groups.

I am a ignorant about this G & T in schools malarky.
In every primary school class I have been in ,they always move the kids round onto ability tables for numeracy and literacy.Typically the 'top' table will have 2-4 children on it.What does being G & T mean over and above this ?

Just been looking down this thread and realise that I have become a pushy parent.

DD was put on the G&T register in year 7, is in top forms for every subject, though hasn't always been. She is now in year 10 and has achieved high consistently. Now approaching her GCSE's (they take one or two in year 10). I'm expecting her to get A*s. Some of her friends have taken Maths GCSE mostly getting B's, one friend mentioned that she was retaking to get and A and DD told them that a B is classed as a fail to me.

I feel bad about this and have told her that it's her education and I just hope she does her best.

I have to question if I would be thinking this way if it wasn't for the G&T register.

Would DD be happy with a B is she hadn't been put on the list? She does want to get A*s. I'm just sad that she will feel a failure herself with a B .

If she is achieving high consistently, then quite likely she will get As because that is her natural level. Nothing bad about that, somebody's got to get them. As long as she doesn't feel you will feel let down is she doesn't or her life will be ruined or something stupid like that.

DD1 has ranked her subjects and decided what grades she'd be happy with in each one, taking into account that her abilities are not evenly spread across all subjects. So for her, a B in English would be acceptable, but anything less than an A* (with practically full marks) in Physics will be regarded as a fail. She'd be like that whether she was on the G&T register or not.

I know what you mean SV. I agree anything less than an A* is a fail.

My nephew who goes to a state school with fairly low GCSE pass rates and a fairly working class/disadvantaged demographic, in an area that is positively littered with grammar schools and therefore the top 25% of children in the borough are not at his school anyway. He was identified as being in the top 10% of Gifted and Talented in THAT school, which of course means nothing in the real world and sets him up for disappointment. He was told he would take a couple of his GCSEs a year early (he's now year 10) but dropped out because he was struggling to keep up and wouldn't have managed much more than a C anyway, so clearly he would have benefitted from another year of teaching before he took them. By most people's standards he is reasonably able in a thoroughly average and underwhelming way, which is to say that he is not illiterate or innumerate but neither is he going to set the world on fire with his razor sharp brain. It's a bit of a nonsense, in its current form, anyway.

abouteve there can be just a couple of points difference between an A or a B or a B and a C etc.

my goodness what a thread its taken me ages to read it (i did skim read some)

Its interesting hearing peoples views and debates/arguments.

I have a daughter who has been exceptionally whats the word i should use erm bright. Now i do hope people dont start jumping on me for my spelling or wrong use of grammer coz my adding to this thread is to share my experience of being told i had a G & T DD.(smile)

Anyways she is one of 4 children i have all raised the same. All in state schools never had any private tuition except me reading them all bedtime stories.

She had this natural ability to learn everything she saw and heard, she was inquisitive and would ask many questions and research. even at a young age she would read every book that she could find. she learnt to read much younger than her peers and siblings.

throughout primary school she displayed this unusual aurora (maybe thats the wrong word). She passed with the highest marks possible with very little hard work. She did not seem to struggle with homework or anything and to be honest she never asked me for help EVER. She just seem to do it all by herself and often amazed me.

At secondary school she was identified as G & T and became part of NAGTY. She continued doing well in all subjects and was often giving extra subjects to keep her interested and to stop her from getting bored (something she would constantly tell me) the school did find it difficult to keep her stimulated and would sometimes see her questioning as being unacceptable. she took her GSCE's (13) (some early) and yes she did very well with hardly any revision.

she is now doing her A levels and continues to do much better than her peers.

The thing i find incredibly sad is her feelings on being classified as G & T. She says she feels that she has to succeed and be the best at everything she does. EG she can not cook for toffee lol and her frustration is awful to watch as she beats herself up over it and really puts herself down.

I hope she is just happy doing anything she wants to in life and support any decisions she makes (providing they are sensible lol)

oh and after that very long post i would like to just add my 2nd DD 15 was recently diagnosed with dyslexia and is not very academic, she is taking 5 GSCE's and her predicted grades are between an F and D.

For her it has been very hard growing up with such an academic sister who naturally finds it easy whereas for her everything is a struggle.

However she is far more practical and exceeds in living skills.

All children are different and as parents we should encourage them to be happy over and above everthing else. Its not good pushing children why make them so unhappy. I dont think you can put a value on your childs happiness

Oh and at the time my child was identified i lived in council house in a disadvantaged area, was on income support and was a single parent ( the shame some people may now be saying lol) also i had no qualifications, at that time.

Im looking forward to peoples comments (smile)

kentmumtj your post is fab! I started this post because there is a middle class / gifted & tealented (not) syndrome. More I have the money to pay for extra tutoring, past exam papers,private school etc etc. I wish it was fair for all kids.

lol must say when i was read this post i could actually feel the anger and arguing lol it did make me chuckle.

i agree that it can be unfair at times and children from disadvantaged families do miss out which at times can be unfair and it is not their fault.

I think all children regardless of background should be given equal chances and opportunitys but sadly in reality we all know this does not happen.

My dd was lucky as she got given opportunites to do and experince things i could not have provided for her at the time, and most of it to be honest was because of my low income.

i am now probably classed as middle class although i do hate this class thing. and would still not send my kids to private school or push them. I want my children to learn adn be surrounded by people from all walks of life. I sometimes think it is the parents wanting to re live their life through their childrens. There is a fine line between supporting and encouraging your child and being a pushy parent.Many of the children with pushy parents grow up and rebel.