Gifted & talented should be stopped!

[lijaco]

I think this should be stopped it isn't accurate, it isn't fair and parents become self obsessed with it. Learning then becomes pressure for kids from parents to be top. If you didn't you wouldn't have this section. STOP IT!

[lijaco]

i think i struck a chord ! I didn't think this thread would still be going! I hadn't been on for months and found it still at the top!
It's time to let it go lol

[kentmumtj]

wow this is all still being debated .......

[DadAtLarge]

I doubt it would be a book on secondary maths unless her maths ability is at that level. Or French. But I get your point - they are non fictions.

I'd still be concerned; non-fiction includes books on human biology, for example. I'd want to vet the books myself rather than leaving it to chance or an over worked TA.

[cory]

Dadatlarge, I think we can assume that the work they are bringing in from the secondary school is not fiction, but the other types of work. A maths book or a book about French grammar would not presumably not cause too much of a problem, though I agree a novel suitable for teenagers would probably be unsuitable.

[DadAtLarge]

One defining feature of trolls is that they keep repeating, again and again, that they won't come back... and they always do!

pickyminx, why did you feel you needed to get a four year old an IQ score (and how did you get it tested)?

On a different note, I'm not sure I'd want a four year old reading books written for teenagers.

[cory]

Is the library good enough to keep her occupied with free reading? Or if not, will they let her bring books from home?

[pickyminx]

Hi there cory, besically she knows all that they are teaching her shes outread the school reading scheme and is free reading ect there bringing in work from the local secondary school for her. They have offered to move her up classes but because i agree that social communication is important ive declinded at this stage. She needs to learn to skip, tie shoe laces ect with her peers but if she realises now that she doesnt have to work to get good grades then she'll learn to become lazy and above all i want her to do well at school and have choices when she leaves. Ive had my dd tested and academically she doesnt faulter on anything puzzles numeracy spelling nothing bothered her and there was only 2 marks between her top and bottom scores but socially she needs to be 4.

[lijaco]

oh and dadatlarge I did ignor your pointers about what you thought we agreed on and I just couldn't be bothered. Bored now time to move on.

[lijaco]

dadatlarge you have picked out personal digs because i have obviously hit a nerve with the posters on this topic. Signs of understanding my posts totally. People get personal when losing an arguement ! It is not an arguement it is my personal opinion nothing to do with my professional status. I would like to see children having an EQUAL OPPORTUNITY. Digs at my grammer alot of posters on here the grammer is put into slang. I am dyslexic but very highly intelligent lol! You picked out awful negative posts highlighted out by yourself. You are sad! It is fab that this post has all these comments, and that posters are thinking about it. Roisins post that you highlighted yes I agree with. Also she can relate to my thoughts to.
Like I said i've finished with this post now. It is very old anyway! Do you really think a TROLL would be so comitted to this?
No this has been really interesting.

[lijaco]

ok dadatlarge if you say so. One thing though I did notice that this sight is being advertised as a forum for middle class mums. I rest my case. Dadatlarge good luck with your sons needs I do believe they should be met. Then there is the real world!

I came from a disadvantaged background and I know the struggles. I am not a troll unfortunately.

Wont be posting on here again though! The posts have never been so talkative, now you can have boring!

[DadAtLarge]

"I think I am perfectly clear in what I am saying."
As clear as mud, lijaco, as clear as mud.

"dadatlarge you are understanding it wrong"
And you, a teacher, are unable to explain it?

Have a look at this thread all on one page. You seem to believe that the best way of explaining your position is to just keep repeating it.

I originally considered that perhaps you were just not articulate enough to get your arguments across. So I took the trouble of trying to understand you by picking out what I believe we are agreed on, and invited you to confirm if I got it right. You ignored that altogether.

I was wrong, others here were right: You are just a troll.

And I've decided it's time to stop feeding this one.

[cory]

What is her specific problems, pickyminx? Is she bored at school like DadAtLarge's ds? I would have though at such a young age, most of the school day would be about developing social and practical and creative skills- which all children need, whether gifted or not. Is it literacy and numeracy classes that create the problem? Or do they not find her anything to do when she has finished a task?

[pickyminx]

Im new to this site, this is my first post and the first thread ive read. Please keep it ive got a gifted 4 year old whose just been given finally, an IQ score and other test results to help the school, after a few years of being labelled 1 of these mothers ur talking about and ur wrong they were all wrong. All i want for my daughter is to be learning at school the same as any other child and its not her fault if shes more academic than other children or learns faster than other children. If she was slower she'd get help why not because shes faster im just very pleased that after reading this thread and certain posts there is other mums out there that are and have been going what i am at present and can help.
So to all those mothers i thank you and keep up the good work our children are and should always be intitalled to the same as any other child.

[cory]

a couple of dd's friends who very definitely seemed unusually gifted in Infants were nothing special when it came to the end of Year 6- bright enough but no longer very different from their friends

otoh a couple of children you would never have thought it of (and I knew these children well from birth), had suddenly shot ahead and developed very interesting minds

with sets, you can easily move children up and down as they or their peers catch up with their development

but it could be quite confusing and upsetting for a parent to be told that your child is no longer gifted and talented

[cory]

there seems to be enormous differences in how g&t is handled in different schools

I would have been furious if dd had been offered school trips and her friends weren't, just because she was officially g&t

but thankfully that never happened

there was a lunch-time club for g&t children, which seems about the right level for me; dd decided to give it a miss as she wanted to get outside at lunchtime and wanted to spend time with her friends who weren't g&t; sounds fair enough to me

other than that, the needs of g&t children seemed to be met mainly through the normal streaming; dd's maths teacher in particular did very interesting stuff with the top set

the advantage of sets is that it is easier to make your way up to the top set if your development takes a leap forward, and less traumatic to be dropped; g&t seems to say more about who you are- which can be misleading with young children (have seen some interesting changes in dd's friends)

[lijaco]

crouching tiger I agree

[CrouchingTigger]

Can I just add some confusion to this ? My LEA's guidance, which I have just found (after 'finding out' my my dd is considered G&T - another thread...) says that any number of children can be included - that it is not the top 10% in attainment, or 10% of anything, it can be less or more. Children should be considered G&T if they are exceeding expectations or have the potential to exceed expectations by a significant degree.
This I suppose makes it more fair, but also meaningless, if it could be say 40% of a school. Surely what we all want is appropriate teaching and resources for our children whatever level they are working at? I think G&T is a red herring, and goes against the spirit of every child matters. Schools should be aware of every child's needs and plan and provide accordingly, surely?

[lijaco]

dadatlarge you are understanding it wrong. children from disadvantaged children do not get the same opportunities. In my opinion class distinction within the education system is huge. the top 10% that is classed as gifted and talented is judged through attainment. Just because a child is achieving within the top 10% of their class does not mean that they are the most gifted or talented. It is not an effective way to measure intelligence. Children should not have pressure at primary school especially as it can be damaging. Children from disadvantaged backgrounds have needs like any other child, but they do not have equal opportunities for obvious reasons. I think I am perfectly clear in what I am saying. We dont need a label it is the label that is causing exclusion. No i'm not a troll lol!

[juuule]

For me, some things just don't feel right about g&t.
I'll try to explain what I mean.
I feel uneasy with the term G&T as it does seem a bit superior and because a child is ahead now might only mean that they are ahead at this phase of their development. Same for a child not labelled g&t. Children pick up on labels and can be hugely disappointed when a couple of years down the line most of their peers have caught up and they are not as ahead as they once were. Same applies in reverse for children not labelled g&t, although some of those are more likely to not bother 'because I'm not bright like x'.
I'm uneasy that only G&T children are told about/offered courses etc which could also benefit other children but because they didn't reach a certain score on a test or are maybe reticent about showing their particular talent or even because they are developing at a different rate to their peer group. Some of the things offered to g&t might be hugely interesting to some children and encourage their learning but they are unable to access it due to someone else judging it wasted on them.
Also, lots of courses offered on ygt site cost and so are not available to all g&t, just the ones who can afford to go.
I feel it's an unfair system (but then aren't most, I suppose).
And I'm not even sure that I am opposed to it as I don't particularly care too much about it.
One of my children enjoyed a local event for g&t but to be honest they have never really been interested in what's offered.
I suppose I should shut up as an unconcerned and mostly unaffected by it parent. I just feel it's a bit of a waste of time and money that could be better utilised in other areas.

[DadAtLarge]

Thanks, kittybrown. Hopefully, lijaco and juuule will comment as well as I'd really like to understand better.

[kittybrown]

I don't think lijaco is a troll. i think she's been misunderstood. The 10% is too wide as there is a huge difference of ability between the top 10% and the top 1%/0.1%/0.01 which means there should be differentiation of work even within the the 10%. If you've got to differentiate within the G&T why not differentiate for everyone.

I agree with your points Dadatlarge but I also think that everyone should be recognised not as G&T as it stands now but for the gifts, talents, passions and interests they possess.

[DadAtLarge]

correct (3) to read:

• Many parents do take the label too seriously and harm their children by pushing them

(just trying to reach agreement)

[DadAtLarge]

I'm inclined to call troll as well. Someone who argues fervently that 10% is too wide now wants the 10% widened in include all children?! Maybe I'm understanding this wrong.

lijaco, it seems you and I agree on a lot of things:

• Children from disadvantaged backgrounds are less likely to shine in school
• 10% of the children in each class - no matter how chosen - are not all "gifted"
• Some parents may take the label too seriously and harm their children by pushing them
• Children should be provided for based on each one's need
• Children from disadvantaged backgrounds have needs that others don't and these needs should be catered for
• Gifted is not just academically gifted but children could have special talent in everything from music to art to football
• That the children who are really gifted academically account for a very, very small percentage
• This very, very small percentage of really gifted children should be "recognised" (your word, lijaco)
• Labelling doesn't help them but this group has needs different to the others and should similarly be catered for
• G&T is not working

Just so I can better understand your position, would you and juuule care to comment on which of the above you disagree with so I know what I'm not understanding? That would help me more than just repeating "it should be banned, it should be banned".

[juuule]

Fembear, What makes you think that about lijaco? What's the problem in aiming for an all-inclusive system where each child is catered for according to need which is what Lijaco seems to be advocating to me.

[fembear]

ROFL at lijaco.
Now I know for sure that you are a troll and a wind-up merchant.