Worried about Local schools AND daughter's advanced ability :(

[YummyMummy21]

Hi

My DD 3.5 seems to be very advanced for her age compared to others her age and I am worried that when she is going to suffer and not continue to develop to her potential when she starts at school due to over crowding and low school results.

Firstly I am not a pushy mummy who thinks her child is better than everyone else's i promise. However, I do know that my daughter is advanced for her age. It was apparent quite early when she lifted her head clear off the ground at 4 weeks, and crawled at 5 months etc. She is now 3.5 cant count to 60 and not just 1-60 but can give me x many objects. She can also count to 10 in Spanish and speaks basic Spanish (not a 2nd language spoken at home either just picked it up on family holiday). She knows all shapes, colours, and can also distinguish which object/image is different to others. She knows her letter sounds and words which begin with them, not just memory either as she makes words up and has started to read basic words such as cat bat mat, dog, frog, log etc.

Basically the reason for me writing this is that we have just moved into a new area where the schools are very over crowded to the point that I can not get her into a school nursery for this sept, and every school has large waiting lists of children in catchment area, and made longer by children out of catchment area. The schools in the area are not great and appear quite low on the LEA's list of schools. The school (the best of bad bunch if you like) I was hoping to get her into which also happens to be closet have told me that although they will put her on the list for sept 09, they do not believe it likely that she will be given a place due to high applicants, as we are not in the catchment area and usually they don't get to offer places to non-catchment area applicants. The school n my catchment area, which also happens to be over subscribed, is the worst in the area, I visited the school and cried after I had left (luckily I manged to wait till I was out of sight). I am worried that due to the large classes and over-all school attitude that she will not be able to thrive and reach her true potential. But will instead become bored. I saw this happening to my eldest brother ho went from top of his class to dropping out of school because he became bored and frustrated at school.

Can I refuse to send her to this school, who/ where can I go to get her into the better school, it seems ridiculous that the school can be closer in miles, yet not in catchment area. Even if she were to go to the better school, how can I help her not to become bored, but not be dragged down/ not carrying on developing when the class will be taught at a slower pace. Am I driving myself insane for no reason. Has anyone had a seemingly advanced child, that has gone to a not so great school but has continued to advance?

Thanks in advance for any replies x

sometimes as well, you have to recognise that young children have excellent memories, good imaginations and parrot type learning. they don't actually understand what they are saying but repeat and copy everything that they hear words etc. so it is really hard to judge there actual ability.
not all children are very talkative so you cannot measure their abilities either at such a young age. you may have a little einstien that doesn't say very much at all. At 3.5. years of age I think it is very hard to say and there is a very long way to go. You know the story of the hare & the tortoise.
school wise I think they all have prety much the same problems as every where.

Clam, if you're going to correct spelling, the correct spelling of "definitely" is not "defininitely". Just thought I should point it out, as you obviously have a pedantic streak.

Clam, if you're going to correct spelling, the correct spelling of "definitely" is not "defininitely". Just thought I should point it out, as you obviously have a pedantic streak.

It's not for me to comment as to whether or not your child is gifted and talented - but it does sound to me as though you don't have enough data in terms of comparisons etc to make that assessment.

As for schools, I think primary school education is very important. If you are not happy with the only school likely to be available to you, I guess your options are

1. Go to the school and supplement with private tuition
2. Go private - although this is a costly option and you need to consider not just what you can afford now but ten years down the line with much greater costs of secondary school private education, changes in jobs, whether your DD will have siblings etc
3. Home educate - I wouldn't go there personally but some people do
4. Move

It is a bit late now but I would have made absolutely sure of the catchment area before you bought the house. It is the thing that comes right at the top of the list for me. We visited the school before we signed contracts. Have you visited your local school? Sometimes they are very different from their reputation.

Clam, I too find it extremely rude when people post only to correct mistakes.

Generally I think under achieving schools are more of a problem to the less able than the more able.There are lots of opportunities for talanted children within normal state schools and at 3.5 I really think you are worrying too early.

"Im not talking about being able to hold her head up by the way, im talking, laying on her tummy and pushing herself up so head is clear of the ground! (which I dont now and didnt think was a sign of inteligence by the way, just example of her being 'advanced'"

I thought developmental milestones were worked out on averages. By definition then half will do things earlier than average and half later. Reaching developmental milestones early is not, imo, a sign of advancement. It just means she is different from her peers.
I can verify that in my experience the children that appear to be the brightest in reception aren't always the same ones who are top of the class in y6 and in secondary school. A boy in the same year as my ds who was way ahead of his peers at 4, left high school with very average gcses.

TeenyTiny... I guess we're both suffering from "pressing the keys twice" syndrome.
OK. Fair cop, I suppose, it was unnecessary (and probably rude) to point out spelling errors. And I probably had too much time to kill yesterday afternoon. But I suppose my point was that if the OP is so concerned about education being sufficiently high-calibre for her gifted DD, then it surprised me that she hasn't looked to her own performance.

And if nothing else, the OP must realise to be careful in RL when expressing opinions about how bright she thinks her DD might be. It always seems to raise hackles.

Come to think of it... DH went to ordinary primaries and a crap secondary. Got all As for four A-levels (stuff like physics and maths), and a first in his degree at Uni (engineering).

I went to a crap primary where I did well, then a supposedly great primary where I only did so-so because I was badly bullied and the school had no pastoral system, then two so-so/crap/multi-ethnic secondaries, where I did very well, I also got a first at Uni and later a PhD (social sciences).

Does that reassure OP?

Still wish she'd tell us the name of her local "below average" primary, though.

Interesting feature in Sunday Times today saying that the quality of the school has almost no effect on a child's grades - it's parents, parents, parents....and genetics...that count.

The other point is that below average school doesn't mean below average children. They probably have the same ability range as a highly successful school.

Peer pressure must come into it, too, mabanana, for age 12+. Hormones, maternal education, too. At least in a population averages sense, not always for individuals, obviously.

On the whole, there may be some evidence that better educated and/or more involved parents have proportionally more influence over their offspring and that peer pressure becomes proportionally less important.

Oh goodness, should I start worrying about schools? My DD is only 2.5 but she can do all the things in the OP - and more. I just thought she is a normal, happy go lucky girl. Mind you, she didn't lift her head at 4 weeks.

It's worse than that with the head-lifting, fanjolina .

Not only does it not denote intelligence, I am not even sure it denotes strong muscles. Dd did it at 10 days and she is so hypotonic that she has to use a wheelchair to go on shopping trips.

So your dd may still amaze us all.

Headlifting = totally irrelevant to absolutely anything you might want to know.

But it's a good party trick

ds2 was another early head-lifter (2 days which was a bit of a surprise) however he's needed OT since he was 4 because of his low muscle tone so not a precursor of anything wonderful at all ...

I think picking on the head lifting at 4 wks is unfair
OP is describing a pattern of early milestones which while not a guarantee of physical or academic brilliance it often is part of the maze that precurses formal G+T identification

My ds1 was early for all physical milestones and is very gited.

While I think the OP could adopt a lets try and see if my dd is happy first before moving her, I think the ridiculing her is cruel and unneccessary.

Clearly she has a very bright little girl and wants the best
How different is she to those of of with our children of varying needs in all honesty.
We all want the best.

very gifted
How Freudian ;)

Ok, perhaps it is mean, Piffle, but there is point: namely, that physical milestones have nothing to do with intellectual giftedness. It is no predictor of academic achievement. If the OP had stopped mentioning these early milestones the first time this was pointed out, she would have a more sympathetic hearing when she wants to discuss the school choice. It is a simple fact that reaching physical milestones early when you are a baby doesn't show that you are going to be bright.

It can of course work as a useful pointer the other way: reaching milestones very late can be a sign of general developmental delay. But it is as likely to be a sign of merely physical delay without any bearing on academic performance. Most of the academic high achievers whose babyhood I know of were either average or somewhat slower than average to reach physical milestones.

I have actually tried to discuss the school instead, as I feel this was the essential part of the OP. But there is still a sense that the OP feels that this early physical development should have some relevance as to her school choice. And that I simply do not get at all.

not nothing to do with it cory!
In some cases it is an indication of a ability

I speak from both sides, I have a dd aged6 who has never hit a physical milestone, was non verbal til age 3 and has hypotonia.
Yet she is of above average ability at school!
So it can mean something, to say it means nothing is not true. I knew ds1 was different from 6 weeks
Luckily I kept it to myself at the time!!

merely.

sorry.

Hi, I have just started a new website and forum all about schools and have a section on there dedicated to discusssions on gifted and talented learners. I have only just started the site and so would appreciate any parents who would like to get on there and help get the ball rolling by posting any questions or opinions on the education of G&T children or other School related topics. Thanks and Look forward to seeing you there,www.schooltalkuk.com

The clever ones don't hit physical milestones early they get everyone else to chase around them! It's how you look at it really lol