Worried about Local schools AND daughter's advanced ability :(

[YummyMummy21]

Hi

My DD 3.5 seems to be very advanced for her age compared to others her age and I am worried that when she is going to suffer and not continue to develop to her potential when she starts at school due to over crowding and low school results.

Firstly I am not a pushy mummy who thinks her child is better than everyone else's i promise. However, I do know that my daughter is advanced for her age. It was apparent quite early when she lifted her head clear off the ground at 4 weeks, and crawled at 5 months etc. She is now 3.5 cant count to 60 and not just 1-60 but can give me x many objects. She can also count to 10 in Spanish and speaks basic Spanish (not a 2nd language spoken at home either just picked it up on family holiday). She knows all shapes, colours, and can also distinguish which object/image is different to others. She knows her letter sounds and words which begin with them, not just memory either as she makes words up and has started to read basic words such as cat bat mat, dog, frog, log etc.

Basically the reason for me writing this is that we have just moved into a new area where the schools are very over crowded to the point that I can not get her into a school nursery for this sept, and every school has large waiting lists of children in catchment area, and made longer by children out of catchment area. The schools in the area are not great and appear quite low on the LEA's list of schools. The school (the best of bad bunch if you like) I was hoping to get her into which also happens to be closet have told me that although they will put her on the list for sept 09, they do not believe it likely that she will be given a place due to high applicants, as we are not in the catchment area and usually they don't get to offer places to non-catchment area applicants. The school n my catchment area, which also happens to be over subscribed, is the worst in the area, I visited the school and cried after I had left (luckily I manged to wait till I was out of sight). I am worried that due to the large classes and over-all school attitude that she will not be able to thrive and reach her true potential. But will instead become bored. I saw this happening to my eldest brother ho went from top of his class to dropping out of school because he became bored and frustrated at school.

Can I refuse to send her to this school, who/ where can I go to get her into the better school, it seems ridiculous that the school can be closer in miles, yet not in catchment area. Even if she were to go to the better school, how can I help her not to become bored, but not be dragged down/ not carrying on developing when the class will be taught at a slower pace. Am I driving myself insane for no reason. Has anyone had a seemingly advanced child, that has gone to a not so great school but has continued to advance?

Thanks in advance for any replies x

Why did you move to an area with such shocking primary schools when you have a bright 3 1/2 yo?

Maybe they couldn't afford to live elsewhere??

Can OP tell us postcode of her local worst of the bunch school, I'm rather curious, too, about an area of poor but heavily oversubscribed schools.

YummyMummy21, we live in the US where g&t is viewed a bit differently. some things you might consider: get IQ and basic skills tested at age 4 to see what you are really dealing with. It can help tremendously in making certain decisions such as whether you need to move to a better school district. Depending on how she scores you may then want to plan on testing again at age 8. There is a common problem of "gifted drop-out" at this age, generally seen in gifted children who are not properly challenged in their early years. Depending on your situation, you may want to consider homeschooling. There are many resources available for this. Also, depending on her test results, etc. you may want to start looking for a support group whether in RL or online. It can be very challenging dealing with all of the issues of raising a gifted child - from scholastic to social.

Good luck!

OP - good on you for wanting the best for your DD.

I had my DD tested when she had just turned 6. Even tho I was fairly sure I knew the outcome it REALLY helped to have it on paper. For some reason the world seems to want to stamp on kids with high IQs and try and prove that they are just like all the other kids.

Once I had the paper I approached my school to see if there was some way they could work with to provide her with a bit extension and stop the boredom setting in. This term they have established a new "G&T" class for Year 2&3 kids where 8 of them go out of their regular class once a week for 2 hours and discuss things like "can a bubble be a friend"? She really looks forward to it and I'm thrilled as I think a couple of hours a week is perfect for her as the school is really good in most respects altho does have quite large classes.

HTH - don't give up!

Children like that need to try for a school at 4 or 5+ with a very competitive exam which lots of children sit and most fail and then be educated amongst other clever children. Only children whose mothers picked sensible careers who can afford to pay fees (or who married men who are rich) can afford to ensure their children get that sort of an education at primary level. Just ensure you earn enough to pay fees and that you're near a place - usually an urban place which has one of the best day single sex prep schools in the country and she'll be fine. Where abouts roughly do you live?

What Xenia describes is one way of getting your child the educational experience she needs. It is not the only way. As a university teacher I find that the really successful students come from all sorts of different backgrounds. What they have in common (apart from brains) is an alert and active interest in finding things out. This can be stimulated at school, certainly, but there are other places where it can also be done: home, educational holidays, after school activities, tutors etc.

I grew up in the sticks, with parents on very moderate incomes, I attended the local comp where most of the kids were planning to either become farmers or marry farmers. The other local jobs on offer were mainly in the egg-packing factory and the mental hospital.

But my home life was incredibly stimulating, because my parents loved learning, they loved reading and they loved talking to me. Just living with that attitude made all the difference to me. I was at no disadvantage by the time I got to do my PhD and I do not feel at a disadvantage among academic colleagues today. (I may not be rich, which Xenia would see as a failure, but that is because I have chosen a very traditional subject, where the pickings are less rich than they used to be. My choice- and I'm not regretting it).

Other students have managed in other ways. It's not a case of one-size-fits-all-if-you-don't-get-this-done-your-child-is-doomed.

So Xenia, a 'sensible career' is one that makes you rich enough for privately educating a 4-year-old? What about one that leaves you mentally stimulated, relatively unpressured, well-informed, and fairly poor? So that you are able to give your child the kind of home environment that cory mentions.

DH is a university lecturer, also, and I just work part-time, in a para-academic role. We try to give our children a thoughtful, mentally stimulating home. I'm sure that for a 4/5-year-old that is more important than the quality of the school.

what about home-ed?, that's another way for you to feel more comfortable with her education.

At 3.5 my daughter was just like the OP's and my friend who has been a primary teacher for 20 years commented that she would do fine in year 2, let alone reception. There was another girls at pre-school just like her - it's not that unusual.

She's doing very well at school now but, frankly, I think it takes until well into Year 1 before teachers start to differentiate between those who have more ability and those who are simply more 'rehearsed' because they attended very formal pre-schools or started school a term before their classmates. It used to irk me that the 'ability' groups in Year R were actually 'date of birth' groups but now (Year 2) some of the summer-born children are starting to overtake their older peers.

I'd echo what's already been said here. Academic gifts aren't the only things that matter. It's fabulous to be clever and to have access to all the wonderful experiences that that can bring but I send my daughter to school in the hope that she'll become a well-rounded character and not just the exam-passing robot that I was as a teenager.

I know better than to pick a fight with Xenia but buying your offspring an expensive education is not the only way to ensure that their talents are nurtured. I've got no ideological problem with private education but, for me, working 15 hour days in the city to earn money to pay school fees and au pair wages is not a choice I'd feel comfortable with right now.

My dd was like yours

She got into v competitive selective private school for primary but we ended up sending her to the local state primary as we thought it offered a better all-round experience.

She is doing very well and she is most certainly not on her own there. There are about 5 of them (all girls of course!) who are on a similar level and as they stream from Y1 (where she is now) she gets plenty of appropriate attention.

However her primary is excellent

Had the state option been bad I would have sent her privately

your dd sounds like my ds1, who is very bright and classified as G&T but imo is just that...very bright.
What you need to bear in mind is that she may not continue to be "above average".. yes so far she has hit all of her milestones early, but she may well slow down whilst others catch up.This has happened to both my ds and others we know.
I sent my dc's to a poor performing school academically but one that had a lovely cosy atmosphere and was socially good. They thrived at infant level and it was only when they reached junior level the academic ability became more of an issue.
I have now moved them to a much bigger academic school where they have settled in quickly and happily but I am well aware this is due to the social and emotional grounding they got in their infant school.
I suggest you forget about the milestones your dd is reaching and look for a school that you think will fit her personality, her sense of fun and one where she will make friends. If she continues to be bright then you can always reassess at yr3 and have more chance of getting into the school of your choice.

My dd is 2.4 and I believe (and according to my not at all biased Nursery Teacher Mother), pretty 'advanced' too in several areas (eg she could do 35 piece puzzle by 2nd birthday).

I will be sending her to the local state school (here in Hackney) just as I was (though I think she is smarter than I was). She'll be fine.

Anyway, she is funny and cute and sweet and caring - and I'm thinking that will probably get her further in life than her ability to do puzzles really young!

PS Congrats on your lovely, clever daughter!

I must say my eldest was very advanced by the time she went to school she was using all her sounds to do independent writing and reading. Again her arithmetic was excellent too and to be totally honest with you in her reception year she was totally and utterly bored. The teacher's only concern seemed to me to be to raise the levels of the children who didn't know their sounds, letters, reading or numbers while failing spectacularly to challenge or extend the brighter ones. With hindsight I feel this has affected her, she was so eager to learn but in that year I watched that enthusiasm ebb away. Now in Year 4 she is and will always be one of the brighter children but she very rarely puts any effort into her learning and we are always left feeling if only she tried....so yes you probably should investigate the schools further. Is there any chance of going private?

Hi All

Thanks for your replies.

I have considered sending her to private school. Not because I think she is too good for the state school or that she is a genius but I feel that they are more focused on individuals reaching their potential whether academic or other, rather than the schools performance tables etc.

There are two locally that are very nice, looked around and met the teachers etc and I was very impressed, staff were all lovely and very helpful (something that I can not say about our catchment area school), however I think that the fees are unfortunately just a little too high.

I have also thought about Home Ed, and am considering it strongly, and I would defiantly rather home Ed than send her to the catchment area school.

As to the question about why I moved to the area. I live in an newly built property, when I looked into moving there, I was told that the catchment area school would be the nicest in the area. However, apparently when it came down to it they decided that the other (the worst) would be catchment area as there is a better pedestrian crossing or something like that, even though the other school is actually closer to the property. The reason that most of the schools (quite a few in area) are over subscribed despite being low achieving is due to the area being over populated. The area is very rural, multi-cultured (for a lot of families English is not a first language), many families have 5 plus children. Obviously all these children need to go to school somewhere, and there are only so many places at the "better" schools.

I am perfectly aware that other children may catch up with her, and I don?t think she is unique in her abilities.
However, she is advanced now and enjoys learning, and needs to know absolutely everything to an almost obsessive level. I only worry that as the school is so full and judging by what I heard when I visited, teachers are stressed and frustrated, she will become bored of learning what she already knows, and begin not to enjoy learning because of this.

If I felt that the school was of normal level, then I wouldn?t have any problems with sending her there. However having looked around the school, and heard the conversations between teachers saying that they needed to get home before anyone else approached them with a problem, and were glad that school holidays were almost there because they needed a break before they went crazy. Then I also heard the receptionist asking someone if they could please talk to her (a parent on the phone) as she was feed up of her keep calling everyday asking the same thing.

(Just to let you know I think the reason that all this was said with a perspective parent around was because I was talking to one of the classroom assistants, who I went to school with (who also told me not to send my daughter there) and it was the end of the day. I think that they just assumed that I also worked there too) I had just popped in to pick up a form, and hadnt made it to desk yet.

Thanks again

It is impossible to say whether she will get bored or not at school. That depends not only on how gifted the child is or on the quality of teaching, but also on her personality. Some gifted children need to be catered for iyswim; others are more adaptable and will get the best out of almost any system.

My dd was certainly very unusual in her linguistic awareness; for instance I have written down long discussions we had about the past and the future when she was 2.

Still, she has never been bored at her state school, partly because she is also a people person, so any place full of people is going to seem exciting to her, partly because she is prepared to take an interest in whatever is going on. And she has learnt lots from school.

No doubt she has been lucky to have mainly pleasant and interested teachers, but she has also had to learn to accept that everybody is human and that even teachers are allowed to not know everything/to have an off day/to not always be able to cater specifically for her needs. I think this has been useful training in its own right- since it has only happened intermittently.

She is now in secondary school and has clearly not been put off the educational experience in any way.

Obviously, if she had spent all her early school days with frustrated teachers who never seemed to know any answers and never gave her any individual attention, then we might both feel rather differently about the whole thing.

It may be that you are simply getting bad vibes from the local schools- in which case those vibes are worth listening to. Overhearing one unfortunate conversation between teachers says very little - everybody gets tired at work from time to time - but it's when it makes you think 'ah, just what I might have expected from this place' that you should take it seriously.

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YummyMummy... I do think you need to put this all in perspective and I think I can say that because I was in your position with my DD2 and she is now 17 next month.

At the age of 3.5 my DD2 astounded me with her intelligence and she was not my pfb so I wasn't blinkered! When she started school, she never really had to learn to read... she went from reading the odd word or two to just... sort of reading books! Sounds daft I know... but that was how it was with her. Learning was never an effort - it just came naturally. She went to just an 'ordinary' school...

However, the point of the story is... I realised that my DD needed to be nurtured and encouraged but NOT hot housed. She has a very quirky fun personality and was not your typical geeky child. So I decided to let her find her own way with learning... TBH learning about life, interaction with friends, and getting on with your peers is just as important, if not more, than books and education.

I never ever pushed her in any shape or form. Yes, she joined G&T, but decided it wasn't for her and didnt want to be involved. She did the minimum of homework (I knew how much she would have been capable of... but I let her do the minimum). She has, and had, a strong circle of friends, she likes partying, the odd drink or three, she has a boyfriend... she is just a normal teenager.

Yes, she did get 10 A* in GCSE and was top in the school and she is still a clever girl, but she is also rounded and ordinary too! If your DD is bright, she will find her way through education... mine did.

You need to read 'May contain nuts' by John O'Connell.

It will help you get things into perspective.

God... I'd love Xenia to read it!

lol cd

my dd2 was very bright and advanced at 3.5. She is now in Year 1 at her (excellent) state primary and runs in a terrifying pack of 5 equally bright and confident girls. She is still ahead of the game but by a less impressive margin. The school cope with her just fine and I do a lot of extra stuff with her at home (french, craft stuff, spelling lists, computer stuff, music lessons).

Yummymummy - I agree you need to put this in perspective. I am not doing down your dd by any means, she sounds very bright, but I think you are worrying unnecessarily - if you don't like the school, that is a different matter. FWIW, dd2 went to a private nursery attached to an excellent private prep who completely failed to stretch her at all and in fact had no idea what to do with her. At least state has the g and t programme in place.

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when dd2 gets bumptious I tell her that everyone will be the same in year 3 (prob not compltely true but thereabouts)

do you know though I am taking xenias advice and going back to work full time to send dd1 privately

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