Did your gifted pre schooler

[nikos]

have behavioural problems? We are currently in the assessment process for ds (age 3.5) who has been showing mild autistic traits. The paed today said that often very bright children can present with autistic like traits when younger.
Anyone had experience of this?

What sort of thing does he do that is concerning them?

I ask because my dh is absurdly clever (not just me saying it, he really is) and is a little autistic in his behaviour sometimes. I have read there is a link as per what your paediatrician said. So maybe your ds is like this but a bit more so given he has ended up being seen by the paed.

Dh could name all different makes of vehicles when he was very young (maybe 2 but I don't know) and things like that. Didn't used to be very good at looking people in the eye when talking to them and is pretty immune to other people's emotions (great when you're married to him!) He has never been diagnosed as it is just that he is that way a little bit and in their day people weren't so aware.

But what is your ds doing that is of concern?

His main symptom is not liking being in a group situation e.g sitting for register and story time. Also showing verbal and physical aggression at nursery. Hi behaviour at home is much better and we are seeing improvements all the time. He is very bright and verbal and I do think there is something odd but not a big thing IYKWIM.
If he is on the autistic spectrum though, I do want him diagnosed so we can access help and know what we are dealing with. During the school holidays he has been great, interacting loads with his siblings.

He sounds like all 3.5 year old boys at preschool tbh! Nothing you have said which sounds autistic IM (v)HO.

To OP - yes, definitely.
I think you are doing the right thing by considering the difficulties, or at least the possibility of there being difficulties. As social/behavioural problems can interfere with the learning of the ablest of children - that's been our experience with ds (who's just 9).

Not sure. I think very able and alert young children are possibly a bit of a handful. I think they take too much in, and feel a risk somehow, they're not comfortable in their skin - so there can be quite a lot of jumping about, and skidding around and not sitting, and general jumpiness. It can be seen as unusual, and often comes out as aggressive I think - often because they then are over stimulated rather than reassured as you might a meek, quieter child.

Very young though isn't he?

Bink - is your son on the spectrum or just has social issues?

When ds2 (now 5yrs) was being assessed for autism the Paed told me that it can sometimes be difficult to tell whether a young child is having difficulties purely because of their level of intelligence or because they have ASD and have been using their intelligence to find their own coping mechanisms and ways of masking their problems.

agree with Enid that what you describe is a totally normal 3 yr old boy

I guess there is more, as he is being assessed?

nikos - he doesn't have a diagnosis (despite several assessments over a number of years) - but no-one in a school environment (nor the recent assessing people) would ever deny he has difficulties - and that his difficulties are "spectrummy", to use an accepted informality. As examples, typical nowadays are:

• near-total lack of herd instinct (eg everyone goes off for regular PE lesson; ds left behind staring into space);

• inexplicable difficulty with learning routines (most reception children know the hang-your-coat-up, put-your-reading-folder-in-the-tray, sit-on-the-carpet morning routine by the end of the first term, at latest; ds is still unreliable, at the end of Year 4); &

• non-learning from experience/consequences: so he gets told off for something one day & then, despite having apparently listened & taken in the telling-off, does the same thing again the next day - and the next - and so on.

It's things like that which really do affect his learning, and his school experience generally.

The picture's not all gloomy, though - he is learning & progressing (the moving picture is one of the reasons why there's no diagnosis) - but his learning process is somehow a different species from the one other children have. Eg he needs the rules absolutely BLATANTLY spelt out for him - he's not going to instinctively pick up on where the boundaries are otherwise.

It's the fact that your ds may have a similarly non-standard learning process - if I can put it that way - that makes me think you're doing the right thing by investigating. You may of course, like us, never get an definitive answer, but the investigations have given me lots of useful tools for helping ds anyway.

Agree totally Bink. I'm doing a communications course for helping children with autism and even if that is not what ds has, it still is a good social skills course.
I think the fact we are seeing such progress makes me question if he is ASD. But he does struggle in group situations.
Enid etc - think it is more than normal boyish behaviour (I've got three children) as he can be very disruptive in nursery. Although I do think he could just be particularly bored at nursey.

my 10-year-old hated - and still hates - group situations like storytime, singing time, group games, register etc which was picked up at pre-school. He is very sociable but just hates enforced joining-in!
He is extremely bright (but dyslexic) and has several odd foibles. But all kids are different hey? Don't think it neccessarily means there is a 'problem', just personality.

Hi Nikos,

My DD has ASD, during our assessment the pead also said to us about gifted children also being quite spectrummy. I found this site really intersting.

www.gt-cybersource.org/Record.aspx?NavID=2_0&rid=11381

Hope this helps

Hi Nikos.
My five year old, ds2, has a verbal diagnosis of as. I have found out today that he has been assessed as gifted at school, in literacy and numeracy.
I think it is quite common for the two to co-exist, i.e. to be gifted twice exceptional.

Hi Nikos,
Your boy sounds like my DS2 who has a verbal DX of mild AS. He is bright but disliked circle time esp. singing at playgoup and nursery and became difficult at school in P1. He is doing well now although social skills are still behind his peers. I have read research which indicates that the final outcome for children with Aspergers is related to their IQ, ie. the cleverer they are the more they can teach themselves to adapt and fit in with normal life. I feel some people on this thread are a bit defensive about any suggestions that their child might be on the spectrum, there shouldn't be a stigma IMHO, I think it is the different wiring of the brain that leads to the intelligence and the quirky behaviour, they can't be separated and so both should be accepted and celebrated, we use humour a lot in our family to discuss ideas about everyone being different, DS2's quirks are referred to as Martian behaviour and this helps his brothers understand him, he quite enjoys calling himself a Martian as he loves SCI-FI!

My DD (now 22) went to a gifted school (in Canada) she was assessed with IQ of 132... as a child she was very hard to please, very critical and stubborn. Had funny things which I accomodated, such as, road works and big diggers and anything loud and mechanical was avoided at all costs otherwise it was unconsolable screaming and crying. (No flushing the loo at night either the noise was unbearable to her) Hated being forced to join in and be a silly kid for the fun of it. I often felt quite sorry for her as she was always so poised and stiff. She could never let her hair down in a way. Today? Total opposite... they learn to master their failings, maybe it take a bit longer but I always knew she was not going to do 'party tricks and get silly' in order to be like all the others. Once we had her 5th birthday, clown games etc... she hated it, Said the clown was not entertaining and cheap! Most adults didn't warm to her snobby stand offishness, but today she has done a complete turn around and is at Uni, very well liked and loads of friends and such a joy with her humour and quick mind. But its as if they feel so alone while it is working through them. I was always very protective of her consequently she was called a spoilt unsociable brat, but I had my reasons. Today its paid off. They just need that extra bit of understanding and support whilst its flowing through them.

Giftedness can be very different things. There certainly seems to be a type of child where a certain kind of giftedness - very mathematical, centered around numbers or objects - goes hand in hand with interaction problems anbd dislike of social situations.

Dd's giftedness was much more in the verbal/maturity department. She understood concepts like the past at an unusually early age. Grasped the concept of translating from one language to another (we are bilingual) much earlier than the children usually quoted in books on bilingualism. Thoughtful analysis of the plot of The Lord of the Rings (which she insisted on my reading aloud in its entirety!) aged 6. That sort of thing. Also scarily early at understanding what makes people tick.

But a lot of these skills are exactly the sort of thing that helps in social intercourse, so she's always been successful getting on with people, as well as doing well at school.