Siblings of the G&T - help me know what to say to DD

[Balloonsandbunting]

Hi all
I haven't posted in this topic before, and I hope I'm in the right place.

I have 2 children - DS5 and DD6. We've lived in Germany for the last 18 months, and the children are at local German school. After a rocky start, they've picked up the language, and are both doing very well. DD is sporty and bright, but has struggled a bit socially. DS is not sporty, but is very popular with the other children, and extremely smart.

Today, we got a call from the school saying they'd like to think about moving DS up a year, into, you've guessed it, his sister's year. He's certainly a clever boy, and, having been so excited about going to school, was getting a bit disappointed in it, which we certainly didn't want. I'll have a whole host of concerns and questions about it if it does happen, but my concern right now is about his sister. She's going to be pretty confused by it, I think, and they're proposing putting him in the parallel class to hers, which is the class she'd really like to be in herself. I don't want him to steal her friends (which I've seen him do before) and I don't want him to be demonstrably ahead of her (which he is at home, but it's never been "officially recognised", if you know what I mean.) They're two totally different children, and I just don't want her EVER to feel that he's something special and she's not, you know? I feel very strongly that "clever" only gets you so far - what's really important is working hard and being true to yourself. But I feel like that might sound hollow to a child with a little brother who's being placed on a par with her.

So my question is, if you have one child who is G&T, how does the other one feel, and how do you talk to them about it? Any advice is most welcome. I feel like this will come up at bedtime!

I'm sorry op but you simply can't hold one child back to ensure the other feels good about herself, that's shit.

You need to move your child and manage the situation appropriately, to the messaging and the management.

Thinking of not moving him is the lazy answer.

You've completely misunderstood me. I'm not thinking of not moving him. I want to make it ok for her. Do you have any experience in this area that might help me?

Well that's a polite, kind and helpful reply. FFS

OP mine are older now but we had a similar-ish situation and my advice would be to find something your DD is better at (that sounds awful ) if she is sporty are there any local clubs/activities she could do, and improbably DS could come watch her do? Then she may feel like her talents are also being recognised, even if it's not in school. It does get easier as they get older I promise. (I had an older DC with SN and sometimes it was heartbreaking to watch their younger siblings "overtake" them, for want of a better word)

First reply sorry, not you OP!

sexistroles that gives me something to think about. She is an excellent swimmer, and he is not - shame I can't keep them in the swimming pool 50% of the time! I think what might exacerbate it is that he finds academics AND friendships easier than she does. If it was one or the other, it would almost be easier. She found our move abroad very difficult, and isn't very confident at the moment (although I hope this will change). I don't want her to feel kicked while she's down. Glad to know it gets easier as they get older, thank you.

I would be questioning why they think it would be beneficial to both children to move him up a year rather than to pitch work at his level and keep him amongst his friends and peers. It would be especially odd to move him as its inevitably going to cause issues moving into his sisters year.

I would encourage them to keep him within his year group, it shouldn't be too hard to differentiate work to his level. This would then allow both him and his sister to remain with their friendship groups without the problems you foresee happening.

I would also put your DD in a sport club so she had something she can excell in when she inevitably notices her brother is academic. That way you have an area to encourage her talent in meaning she won't feel less special.

Not quite the same but I knew a family with children in consecutive years who deliberately didn’t go to the small local school as every other year they would be together and were worried about the younger child outshining the older one. They chose a larger school with one form per year (rather than combined year groups) and travelled.

So my suggestion is - is there another school your ds could attend? Or would the new school put him in the normal year group.

My parents had the same situation with me and my brother but we were a little older - we both passed the 11+ at the same time but he was a year early and they were given the option to put him up a year. They opted not to, mainly for my self esteem but also because he wasn't emotionally/socially a year ahead. I very much appreciated the chance to be me, not 'X's sister' which plagued my younger sister who then had to follow in his footsteps. Do you really want them doing GCSEs and A-levels at the same time and for less academic sister to always be playing second fiddle at school?? Why can't they differentiate the work appropriately in his current year? My eldest is very bright and has often been moved up a year for some classes - maths in particular - but he has remained with his peer group.
My brother is now a research fellow at Cambridge so it doesn't appear to have stunted his chances longer term!

Smile yes, I will definitely be having a conversation with the school along those lines. I can't help feeling that if we were in UK, they would differentiate for DS, and I'm not sure why that isn't being suggested. According to German friends, it is incredibly unusual to move a child up a year, so it's not like this is routinely what they do in this situation. They will put him in the higher class for a session next week, to see how he copes, and we will then meet with the school to see what their recommendations are. You've clarified it for me though - it should be a decision that takes into account the needs of both children. Maybe that's why I'm uneasy about it.

It’s quite unusual to move a child up a year isn’t it? Is it a German thing?

You've clarified it for me though - it should be a decision that takes into account the needs of both children. Maybe that's why I'm uneasy about it.

I'm glad you are weary about their proposal it really doesn't sound like it would do either of your children much good if they followed through with their plan.

It also seems especially thoughtless as they have just moved to a new country and therefore the friendships they have made will be extra important in helping them settle in.

Definitely look into a sports club for your DD I think as you say it will be important for her to have a place where she excells.

Do you really want them doing GCSEs and A-levels at the same time and for less academic sister to always be playing second fiddle at school??
God no. Apart from anything else, I think this would ruin their relationship. I deliberately had two children close together so they'd be friends, not rivals! Although I appreciate that's not a given, I think this could put paid to any chance of it...
The emotional/social thing is a good point too. Although he, I think, is socially capable of it, he is quite physically small. Basically, I don't want him to be the odd one out unnecessarily. Some of those kids are nearly 2 years older than him.

It’s quite unusual to move a child up a year isn’t it? Is it a German thing?
Not as far as I understand. A German friend told me today she'd never met anyone who had been a year ahead at school.

The more you all say it, the more I think it might be laziness by the school. Presumably it's easier for them to move him, than work to differentiate for him in his current class...

The more you all say it, the more I think it might be laziness

It does sound very much like they are taking the option that's easiest for themselves and not what's in the best intrest of your children. It would certainly be something I would keep an eye on in future.

I would ask what the general plan would be with regards to moving up a year; remain in that year group throughout school or repeat a year at some stage?
I just ask because I was moved up a year when I was about 8. I'm also a June child, and although I copied fine with the academic work, I was nearly two years younger than some of my peers, and I really struggled socially as a result, this became especially apparent at secondary.
Just from a personal perspective I don't think I benefitted from it at all. I ended up doing my a levels when I was 16, and I just don't think I had the emotional maturity, and didn't do nearly as well as I could have done.
Obviously the alternative is to repeat a year at some stage but that has obvious downsides too
My advice would be to investigate what could be done to stretch and challenge your DS whilst remaining with his age group.
Caveats that I know nothing of the German education system, and of course your DS might be very different to me. Best of luck

I was that child in a class with others who were one or two years older. It was fine until adolescence hit them. Suddenly all my 'friends' wanted to talk about was boys/girls etc while I was still a child, wanting to climb trees and have a very different kind of fun.

It took me more years that it should have to work out why I went from being popular to being the kid everyone thought was 'soooo immature'. It was at a forty year reunion that I suddenly twigged 'you are all older than me'. I didn't say anything but wished it had not happened to me.

Absolutely the school should provide enrichment and stretch without have to leave the peer group.

Firstaidnovice Yes, that's also an important consideration - does he spend his whole schooling a year ahead and move up to secondary school when he's only just 10? That seems crazy to me. My husband was also a year ahead in primary school, and doesn't talk fondly of the experience (this is all his fault!) I'm also a huge believer in educating the whole child, and social and emotional considerations are front and centre for me.

I would just say no. Unlike the first poster who replied to you, I absolutely think you can hold him back to make things better for his sister.

It seems to me that the consequences of moving him up are far far worse for her than the consequences of staying put are for him
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I have twins. My daughter is more academically capable and finds friendships easier than her brother. I have no option but to support them as they take their GCSES in the coming months and discuss A Level options - my daughter already knows what subjects she wants to take and what she wants to do at university, my son is struggling to chose 3 A Level/BTECH options. Parents of twins face situations like this daily. I treat them as individuals as best I can and certainly don’t encourage rivalry at home, it’s about finding at least one activity that they are ‘best’ in. Also you’ve identified that academic ability isn’t necessarily the best lifelong trait. Good luck OP.

I would just say no. Unlike the first poster who replied to you, I absolutely think you can hold him back to make things better for his sister.
My worry about that is that he will learn that school is boring and that he doesn't have to do any work to excel. Worst of both worlds, in my view. And we will be to blame, because we didn't want to make things uncomfortable for his sister.

fizz yes, of course, I appreciate that parents of twins deal with this all the time. I do think it makes a difference, though, that there's a year between my two. Convention dictates that the older one should be further along, and this would violate that, to an extent. Although nothing is ever so neat in real life, obviously.

I have to say I skipped two years at school and it was not a good experience for me. The classwork was still not especially challenging and socially I really floundered and formed a lot of unhelpful and untrue beliefs about myself. I think school is best for socialising a person. You don't do much you can't pick up on your own until tertiary anyway really.

I think you’re downplaying it in your head if you think it will be merely uncomfortable for her...

You said yourself you’ve seen him pinch her Friends in the past. He would be going into the class that she wants to go in. It makes a massive statement about her ability vs his, especially if he overtakes her in the work they are doing, which will be clearly obvious as they are in the same year. The fact that you are willing to do it at her expense may not sit well with her in future years, so self esteem takes a further battering. It may not be true, but from her point of view which child looks like your favourite?

Do you have any plans to come back to the uk at any point in their education?

Highly unlikely that he would be able to join an older year group