Meet the Other Phone. Only the apps you allow.

Meet the Other Phone.
Only the apps you allow.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Gifted and talented

Talk to other parents about parenting a gifted child on this forum.

School for the gifted

412 replies

NameChangedNoImagination · 05/05/2019 19:07

If there was a school for the gifted, would you send your child? I would have loved one when I was a child. Where learning is accelerated to your own pace and where you have time and encouragement to study special interests.

OP posts:
Xenia · 15/05/2019 22:10

I read him in English ( I think he wrote both in English and Yiddish - I would not try a yiddish version although I usually have a reasonable grasp when I hear it said because I have German A level).... this thread reminds me to go back and read some of his books again.

chirpychirpee · 15/05/2019 22:37

I was measured as being in the top 1% IQ when I entered my grammar school so no genius but not exactly stupid.
The pressure there made me buckle completely. I was also gifted in music and the focus was so heavily academic that Everyone kept telling me to stop focusing on my music abilities and instead focus on academic subjects. I suffered on until I could take no more and moved at 16 to a comprehensive sixth form despite my parents threatening to disown me for leaving the ‘good’ school. I still ended up from my own efforts in a conservatoire for music and carved a career out for myself.

my own dd goes to private school but actually I send her to private school so she doesn’t have any pressure to be an academic genius. Sure she’s smart but my music will always stay with me as a big part of my life as it’s something I love. My dd loves sport. I don’t even know if she’s gifted at anything or not because she’s on one reception and although top of her class that means nothing at the moment. I want her to focus on whatever she wants to. I’m moving her next year to a very sporty school so she can be mediocre if she wants at something she loves. Her mental health is of upmost importance to me and I don’t think a solely high achieving academic environment helps this.

When I was at grammar school I saw some seriously intelligent girls go on to have full breakdowns around exam season and many can’t work as adults for mental health reasons. Some are really only ‘gifted’ because they coop themselves up alone because their social skills aren’t great and they’d rather hide and study (I married one of these and he’s lovely but it’s taken many years for him to step away from hiding in books permanently, nothing wrong with a bit of that but to never speak to anyone is a shame, we’re talking 100% in his further maths a level kind of thing)

Some already have special needs that are ignored in favour of labelling them ‘gifted’
I don’t like the tone of your posts. Gifted dc are normal unless adults point out they’re not. They mostly want to fit in and enjoy life, often they do struggle to though and adults separating them doesn’t really help imo.

corythatwas · 16/05/2019 13:26

“conformity is not a trait/skill that makes a good scientist or artist or inventor or pretty much anything that anyone in my family is going to become.”

This is what I would have thought at 15 and why I would have loved the idea of such a school.

40 years later, working in an academic career and loving what I do, I realise how impossible that career would have been if I had grown up incapable or unwilling to adapt myself to people who were different to me- including ones who were less gifted.

To put it simply- no one these days is going to pay you to do research if you are not also prepared to teach students of varying ability, promote your institution to the general public, give talks to schools, do LOTS of admin, write frequent research grant applications which, as Namenic points out, have to fit in with what the funding body wants to see, work with others in group projects, provide pastoral support to students from various backgrounds and with various problems, some of which you may struggle to sympathise with, others which will break your heart.

And no, it doesn't get any better when you get a more permanent career- at my institution, applying for large research grants is now expected of anyone at the level of senior lecturer or professor, and you can expect to be called in for a (no doubt very uncomfortable) chat if that doesn't happen- it's not a case of having lots of money to do what you want with.

But within those limits of working with other people and meeting those needs, I can do some pretty amazing things.

My dd is training to be an actress. The first thing they get told is that acting is about the ensemble, it's about working with other people, it's about not letting yourself be thrown or making yourself unpopular if the other person doesn't meet you halfway, it's about networking. When you audition at drama school, they will be watching you and
judging you on how you speak to the cleaning staff and the people at reception.

My SIL is travelling all over the world doing some pretty advanced work on biochemistry. Again, it is team work, you have to work as a team, it's not about individual genius (STEM research very rarely is, these days). And to get there, she had to teach, often students who were moderately gifted and quite lazy.

I appreciate that this is a world that is very much harder for people who struggle socially. But it does no one any favours to pretend that research and scholarship are primarily the reserve of lone geniuses. Better to recognise what the difficulties might be and how you can work within those parameters. Like dd, who had to overcome both
physical disability (including severe chronic pain) and extreme social anxiety to study acting. Wouldn't have done herself any favours by thinking she was so gifted that those difficulties didn't matter.

LondonGirl83 · 16/05/2019 16:39

Why is there an assumption that gifted kids won’t learn social skills if their classroom peers are gifted?

Do people think children in top grammar schools have no social skills or leadership abilities?

Success requires resilience, ambition, social skills, leadership ability and emotional intelligence and a comp isn’t the only place to learn those skills.

RomanyQueen1 · 16/05/2019 16:49

Mine has developed Leadership skills and is often praised for this, it is a direct result of being at her school. Her social skills are amazing and she can communicate with people of all ages from all walks of life.
Conforming is not her though, it's something she just can't do, but it hasn't held her back, on the contrary it's helped enormously to not have some of the barriers to progress that others may experience.

OutwiththeOutCrowd · 16/05/2019 17:20

There was a discussion earlier about whether or not a typical comprehensive school could provide those in its top set(s) an experience akin to that provided in a selective school. I think the way my DS’s 'top 10%' school operates as regards splitting students up - or not splitting them up - into ability groups throws some light on the issue.

Most subjects at his school are actually not set - the school doesn’t find any added value in introducing further gradations. To me, that means that the top set of an average comprehensive school of reasonable size is probably offering an experience not dissimilar to that offered by my DS’s school for most subjects, as far as the experience is influenced by the innate ability of the class and the pace at which it can be taught.

The one academic subject which is set is maths. Although the overall standard in the school is quite high, the school does still find it useful to split the boys up even further according to ability.

So I do think that maths is the one academic subject that would feel different in the top set of my DS’s school compared to the top set of a comprehensive. It’s possible for the boys to work in pairs, groups or as a class on more complex problems and to have a look at off-curriculum topics as a class. To reproduce the experience for the top of the top set in a comprehensive within a normal school day may require a Skype conference call lesson with students in schools elsewhere.

(I still feel very much in two minds about the whole notion of gifted schools but wanted to highlight the particular situation with education in maths, which, as I see it, is rather unique.)

corythatwas · 16/05/2019 18:00

LondonGirl83 Thu 16-May-19 16:39:25

Why is there an assumption that gifted kids won’t learn social skills if their classroom peers are gifted?

What I meant was that for an academic career (which is one of the things Sophie mentioned) leadership skills and social skills aren't enough: you also have to have a LOT of patience with and understanding of people who are less gifted than yourself. This may not be the same for all careers.

Xenia · 16/05/2019 22:57

Dependsd on your career. One really nice upside of working in law firms which only take on very academic high achievers where the clients also tend to be similar (in house lawyers) is those are the people you are bouncing ideas off and having meetings with day in day out., however I certainly agree that in life it is extremely imporgtant to be able to talk to and get on with all kinds of people and being reasonably bright do esnot preclude you from doing that - in fact you may be better at it than other people because you can understand the psychological side of things and know how to make people of all types like you.

I agree that learning to be sociable is useful. I was very shy as a teenager. i think performing music and also speech and drama exams and lessons helped as did forcing myself to do university moots (mock trials) and late to give a lot of talks and a few radio/TV things.

However I have advised computer companies where they have a few people who are good with people and sometimes they have brought a programmer to my office having warned me he cannot interact but is a brilliant programmer - I think there are roles for all kinds of different people in lots of companies and employers often find having a mixture is a good idea. the book Quiet on introverts makes the same point - you need both personality types in many businesses.

LondonGirl83 · 17/05/2019 11:27

Xenia exactly.

Some gifted children have strong social skills and others don't but a classroom of gifted children still needs to socialise with each other and learn compromise, conflict resolution, leadership etc.

Some gifted kids may find it easier to get on with people who they have more in common with but that's true of all people. I'm not really sure its an argument against academic selection.

Unless everyone your child interacts with outside of school is gifted (family, extra curricular etc) they will naturally learn how to get on with a wide range of people. Team sports and volunteer work are both great for that.

EggAndButter · 17/05/2019 12:30

I think it’s a bit more complex than that.
First of all, not all gifted children will want to do some team sports etc... like any other child or person, some will be more individualist (?) than others.
But more importantly, it’s very different to communicate with someone on everyday stuff than on a specific area. Eg it’s different to communicate with another child at a birthday party or during a game of football than it is when you need to do some team work on a maths project (an one or more of the members is nowhere near as bright)

FWIW the end result for my own dc was that he developed excellent leardership skills but more of the army type. “Just do this and it will be fine” type of answer rather than the “lets work together and compromise/use emotional intelligence” type of answer.
This is in part due to his own temperament but also because said teams members/friends were more than happy to give him the lead and just relax, letting him do all the work better and quicker than they would have otherwise.
It even came out when he did the DoE award, something that really shouod have been about team work and both teens AND their parents just relied on him to sort everything out Shock

Epanoui · 18/05/2019 01:24

There was a discussion earlier about whether or not a typical comprehensive school could provide those in its top set(s) an experience akin to that provided in a selective school.

I think that comprehensive schools can supply a really good education for most children and if my DD hadn't got into the school she wanted to go to, she would have been fine in our local comprehensive. She is not one of those top 0.01% kids. She is a top 1% or 2% child who struggled a little, both socially and in terms of appropriate challenge, in her good but ordinary state primary.

The reason I sent her to a hugely selective private school wasn't that I did not think she would get good GCSEs and A Levels in the state sector. She absolutely would have done, and she would have been with children who were clever and motivated in whatever sets she was in. I sent her to one of the top schools in the country for the curriculum. She is language obsessed. In no state school in the country would she have had the opportunities to do as many languages as she is currently getting. She is planning ahead and wants to take GCSEs in French, Russian, Latin and Ancient Greek. This is absolutely possible at her school, and she has also done taster courses in German, Russian and Mandarin as well as linguistics before picking her languages. It's not possible at any of the genuinely excellent state schools in our local area (some of which are among the best non-selective schools in the country and all of which are genuinely good schools which any parent would be happy with). State schools can't provide this. If there has been a state option that could have offered a genuinely rich and engaging language curriculum I'd have been totally fine with it. It's not on offer anywhere that I have seen. So for me, I'd love a state school that catered to gifted children in my DD's areas of academic love! But it just isn't there.

LondonGirl83 · 18/05/2019 23:00

EggandButter that's not unusual. That's partly personality like you say-- type A people can be terrible at delegation. Doing everything isn't teamwork.

I'm not sure being in the top set at a comp or in a gifted program makes a difference on developing this skill. Team working skills are only truly developed when undertaking tasks where you have to work as a team or you fail (like in team sports) which is why I think whether you are good at them or not every child should have to do them up to a certain age. Its about developing important life skills.

New posts on this thread. Refresh page