School for the gifted

[NameChangedNoImagination]

If there was a school for the gifted, would you send your child? I would have loved one when I was a child. Where learning is accelerated to your own pace and where you have time and encouragement to study special interests.

Yes, NameChanged I was going to say that all schools should be like that! But definitely needs to be local. My dd would never have gone away to school.

Greathat I found with my dd that letting her do something with her hands when she was young was super helpful to keep her still (and quiet ) in class. Her 1st-4th grade teachers complained about her wriggling and talking. Her 5th grade English teacher let her make friendship bracelets in class while the teacher was lecturing and when then had in class writing or reading assignments she let her lie upside down (or whatever worked for her on the day) on the floor to do them and it kept dd quiet and still and elicited some of the best work out of her. The teacher kept commenting on how surprised she was that her experiment had worked. It was a very formal private school (total disaster for dd), so I don't think the teacher had dared try the experiment with any other student who didn't have an obviously "crazy" mom like me who would think it was a good idea.
And with ds, as long as his teachers let him daydream or read in class (so he didn't get bored by the repetition that the other kids needed) he was still and quiet. One year, he had a teacher who kept sending him to the principal's office at lunch as a punishment for being too active in class. The funny thing was that I didn't know until 3 weeks in because ds was delighted as the principal's office was quiet and he could sit and read and talk to adults (which they wouldn't let him do on the playground). I only found out because I got curious as to why he knew so much about the inner workings of the front office. Same teacher sent him to his sister's class (2 grades lower) to "humiliate" him for behaving immaturely (he was 8). He was delighted to be able to hang out with his sister at school as they normally didn't let the grades mix at all.

Gifted or just an early developer who by age 21 will be comfortable settled in the top 3% ?

Gifted - does that have to be in all subjects or just some ? Are they allowed to drop the subjects they do not like?

Gifted - but socially vulnerable

Feynmann (who went to normal schools right through)
said
stretch sideways not up
he was right

stretch sideways not up

Couldn't agree more!

TalkinPaece there is a huge difference between an earlier developer and a highly gifted child. DD was talking in full sentences at 12 months. That was then and still now 16 year later only a sign of early development. Her giftedness manifests itself in completely different ways. And ds wasn't an early developer at anything; he's only just learned how to tie his shoelaces properly at 18 (years not months). But when a concept was explained in class or something came on the radio or my rocket scientist cousin explained the infinitely expanding universe to my 10 year old, ds just got it in a totally adult and profound way. The problem is that in a conventional school, dd wasn't allowed to progress in English because despite reading adult novels by age 8, she couldn't spell the word cat. And despite being able to calculate discounts and tax on the shirt she wanted at her favorite store, she couldn't tell you quickly what 2x5 equalled. And ds could build a computer, but couldn't tie his shoelaces. He could tell you with absolute precision how to hold a baseball bat, but couldn't actually hit a ball with one. These disparities are quite common with gifted kids and even more so with 2e kids. Traditional schools struggle to accommodate children like this. They shouldn't necessarily drop the subjects they struggle in, but they should be allowed to move ahead in the subjects they don't struggle in and receive appropriate accommodations in the subjects they do struggle with.

Sofia
Define gifted
Being able to read without writing is pretty darned subjective.
Who would you have her mix with in her gifted school?

If normal schools were good enough for Feynmann and his sister and his son (his daughter is adopted) they are good enough for any other genius.

That school sounds fantastic. But why just for gifted children?

Richard Feynman with his IQ in the 120s - as measured by a school IQ test - may not have been allowed in through the door of the sort of gifted school being described here.

Intelligence is certainly an elusive quality to pin down.

Ahh but TalkinPeace you just confounded spelling with writing which was the problem that we had in her elementary school. Dd was a very gifted writer and was a finalist in a nationwide competition with much older children she just couldn't spell because of her dyslexia. At 16 she is a gifted (and royalty earning) songwriter and is getting A's in Community College classes, but regularly misspells even the simplest words.

Having said all of that, she (and ds) did go to "normal" schools and they utterly failed them in many respects and they are now so traumatized (I do not use the word lightly, by the way) by the experience that they had that they may never go on to University.

The point of the "gifted" school isn't to segregate the students away from kids that they "shouldn't" mix with, it's to allow them to benefit from better and differentiated teaching which for some reason doesn't seem to regularly be going on in "normal" schools.

I chose not to send my dc's to fancy private schools for exactly the reason that I wanted them to have exposure to all walks of life, but that shouldn't mean that they get a crappy education in the process.

SofiaAmes
The point of the "gifted" school isn't to segregate the students away from kids that they "shouldn't" mix with, it's to allow them to benefit from better and differentiated teaching which for some reason doesn't seem to regularly be going on in "normal" schools.

So what other kids are going to be at this school with your unique daughter?
What happens if the schools' definition of gifted does not match yours ?

Why not stretch sideways AND up?

I wonder if he really did only have an IQ of 120. Those tests are only a measurement of one moment in time. I've seen ds' measurements go from mildly developmentally delayed to 140's depending on his physical and mental health (and interest in taking the test) on the day of the test.

But anyway, Feynman lived in a different era and the education system was vastly different.

If the school's definition of gifted doesn't match yours, then I won't send my child there.

Again, it's not about the kids, but about the teachers and teaching methods. I think most kids can benefit from excellent teaching methods. My dd has gotten as much inspiration and enrichment from her genius friends as she has gotten from her high school drop out friends.

@Namechanged - I guess coz there is a finite amount of time. Sometimes there is a lot you can do with simple principles rather than rushing to learn more new stuff?

Why should gifted children get better teaching?

IQ is bilge
Feynman was a genius. His sister is unbelievably bright and articulate as is his son.
That is not subjective, that is evidenced.

Segregating children into different schools based on snapshots of their learning or their parents' opinion of their learning will not result in getting the best out of everybody
which should be the aim of state funded education

NameChanged
The English comp schools my kids attended did stretch them outwards and up.

IQ is not bilge, it just needs to be viewed in the context of everything else, just like all types of assessments. I don't know how you can deem someone a "genius" without some sort of assessment to bestow that identification.

All children should get better teaching. Gifted 2e children definitely need it more than an NT child gifted or not.
My children were not stretched outwards or upwards very much at all at their "normal" schools and only got what they needed with a lot of intervention from me and them (in so much as they were capable - dd - yes; ds- not so much)

PS. I agree that segregating children based on snapshots of their learning is not very accurate although parents' assessments of their children's abilities can be useful.

I don't know how you can deem someone a "genius" without some sort of assessment to bestow that identification
Los Alamos, getting full marks in the MIT entrance exam, a Nobel prize, the Challenger enquiry, Feynman diagrams

how do you define gifted ?

In the UK there are the most academic private schools of all for a start. My daughter's is usually in the top 3 - 5 for exam results in the whole UK for example and usually has been for the last 20 years +. Most of the girls there are pretty bright and most who apply don't get in. Even there you will get some who are even better than the very high standard.

Separately there are music schools. 3 of my sons won music scholarships to fee paying schools (but not to music schools) but we know people who are at Chetham's, Purcell School etc.

IQ tests are pretty good at getting a reasonable idea of the child.

HOwever what makes a child a high earner later in life in careers which require a high IQ will not just be their brains but other factors like good health, good mental health, determination, hard work, good luck etc. My Mensa test was about 152. That is consistent with my exam results, university prizes in law etc and 4 grade 8s (music etc) but the fact I have done pretty well as a lawyer is the combination of that with being physically and mentally well and working very hard and obviously choosing areas of law which aren't badly paid which you don't need a high IQ to ascertain.

North London single sex selective fee paying schools are great for those able to access them

• financially
• geographically

BUT back in the real world, State Funded education should seek to get the best from every pupil not just a self defined few

Xenia

HOwever what makes a child a high earner later in life in careers...

Respectfully, I don't think a school for the true outliers should have it's highest aim as making people 'high earners'. It should aim for maximization of potential for contribution to society and the world at large. Earning has little to do with it.

Respectfully, I don't think a school for the true outliers should have it's highest aim as making people 'high earners'. It should aim for maximization of potential for contribution to society and the world at large. Earning has little to do with it.

On that, at least, we can agree!

I don't know why it's beyond the scope of some people to comprehend that extremely gifted or 2e children are not catered for in mainstream education, and why people might want something that helps them meet their potential. That does not exclude average pupils or those at the other side of the curve. I think those who keep saying this may be missing the frankly often tortured, lonely, confused, misfit reality of SOME 2e and abnormally gifted children. For many, it's not just being 'very clever'. It's 'being' a whole different type of person who feels like they're here from another planet. Especially 2e. The idea of specialist provision is not to give them further 'advantage' but to give them space to actually be what they are and use their potential, which is what every child should have. The likelihood of a 'normal' child getting this at mainstream school is higher than an ASD highly gifted, or genius child. That's just a fact.

“It's 'being' a whole different type of person who feels like they're here from another planet.”

How many children like this are there?

I don't know.

Anecdotally I've met about 5 in my lifetime, including my cousin who is having major problems at school and home at the moment. I've probably met more but it's rare you get such insight into people's thoughts like that. So I don't know.