That glass ceiling! Part 2

[var123]

Continuing the discussion about artificial limits placed on G&T children, and the resulting impact on their health and happiness (not to mention futures).

Do they really matter less because they have a perceived "advantage"?!

original thread here:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/gifted_and_talented/2507232-The-glass-ceiling-for-very-able-children?

Sport, yes this isn't so good at dd school, they are very open about it.
Obviously, they do the requirements but nothing else. There isn't time for extra PE, although my dd does swim sometimes when she wants to.

wood it was a very easy decision. Our 'fingers crossed' state option was a nice school, but crap for academic kids. Our likely (and eventually allocated) state secondary is a hole.

The independent is great and well known enough to do reasonable research on. Most importantly, despite my positive (for dd) attitude about the states, dd left one open eve miserable at the prospect of attending, and the other disgusted. The independents she was blown away by.

Dd heard the usual bs about private being full of rich snobs, but only from a few people whose opinions she didn't exactly value.

The only second thoughts I had were about money. Dd knew from the off it was dependent on full fee remission, and I did worry a lot about whether I was showing her the best only to give her the worst.

I remember ripples of laughter at assembly when they read out the dismal lacrosse results. It was all Haberdashers Aske's 62, Us 12.

DD's state primary which does actually do really well by her is also one that many people go private to avoid. An interesting common thread there!

Ambroxide

No teams really at dd school, but this is numbers and too many other variables.
They have an individual timetable, none are the same Then next week there's a totally different one, apart from academic subjects that usually remain the same.

green in some areas private really is for kids that didn't get into a state grammar. We don't have a state grammar within any reasonable commute, so round here it doesn't work like that. Certainly if you have state options like tiffin I wouldn't be worrying they won't be good enough because they're state. Likewise there are independents that aren't much good.

though he described them as such because he has done several activities with them and it happens they were from that specific school.
He has said that from other children too.
The ones that look at your square in the eyes and tell you stuff like
'I have this piece of equipment that is worth £1k so I'm better than you' just to show how bad he was at that sport in the following 5 mins.
Or the ones bragging about 'daddy has a lamborgini and your mum just has a fiesta' type of attitude.

I used to think of our best option is Tiffins then now I dont think so, there are SPGS, LEH, LU which might have better music, sport supports/infrastructure and equally as good or more support for academic...

My problem been that dc1 hasn't met any of the nice huys there (and I'm sure there are plenty!) so it makes him wonder if it could be any better!

If your DC is very clever they are going to come up against arrogant and entitled people in competition for all sorts of things. There's no harm in learning to deal with that arrogance sooner rather than later.

That is true Bobo.

I do wonder about the effect being at aprivate school can have on the attitude of a child BECAUSE the UK isn't my country so I have nothing else to base myself on than ear say (And MN but reading the discussions about private/state school hasn't helped me to get a clear picture of what is gpoing on ).

Anyway this is all very rhetorical. We just can't afford it anyway (we are just above the limit to get some bursary, I can't work more due to ill health so no choice really)

Your DC won't become arrogant and entitled if your family values are strong.

Can I ask very silly question please?
I have no real knowledge of English school system.
So, state secondary, you can only apply to the school you are in the catchment? Can you apply to the secondary in next town?
And state grammar, do they have strict catchment too?
Sorry for stupid question. I really haven't got a clue.

Irvine: you dont live in London I guess which is a good thing as where I live children are registered for a tutor place from reception.

Grammar schools are depends, some are postcodes(the Kent, southeast London ones) and some are almost note(catchment very very wide). Good for grammar schools around you and do your research.

Private: no it doesnt have catchment

State local comp: catchment only(and sibling policy), similar to state primary

It very much depends where you are in the country, irvine. Some areas have strict catchments, some don't have catchments at all and it's purely based on distance. Your local authority website is probably the place to start, and they won't mind if you want to phone and clarify how it works. I think you can always apply to more than one school, though - you are supposed to have a choice, although in most places this boils down to having a preference and which schools you are actually likely to get into.

Even superselectives use distance to some extent - eg if two children are on the cutoff with the same score, the closer will get in. At least that's how it works at our local one.

"Catchment" has a different meaning in England to some other countries. In some countries an address is only ever within catchment for a single primary school and a single secondary school. The country is divided up into little geographical segments, all of which have a school in the middle (a simplification, but that's more or less it). In England school catchments are determined by schools and have varied criteria. Your address might put you in catchment for several schools - or for none!

"Google" I meant( sorry about the typo, sent too fast), sitting breathless outside the baby sister room now as she has been very difficult tonight!!!

Irvine- comprehensives you can apply to whichever you like. But when there are more applicants than places, it comes down to distance. Or with church schools, distance and your ability to meet religious criteria. So Eg my local sink school, which is under subscribed, you can get a place in from the far side of neighbouring leas. Another local comprehensive is so over subscribed, you need to be well within the catchment distance to be sure of a place.

State grammar varies. Some set a higher exam mark for out of catchment than in. Some take the highest from wherever, others stick to a very small area.

Your best bet is to get the names of all the secondaries within the distance you'd let your ds travel, and then speak to admissions at each one. You can also usually look them up on line through the councils website.

"DD's state primary which does actually do really well by her is also one that many people go private to avoid."

I think this is a really interesting common thread at primary.

My personal experience could add to either side of the debate.

On the one hand, in a primary where teachers are used to children of widely differing abilities, backgrounds, home lives, languages, then the process of 'adapting to the specific needs of each child' is very ingrained - and this can be to the benefit of the able. In schools where 'the norm' is to be able to teach 'pretty much the same to pretty much everyone', the culture may be 'lazier' in terms of adapting to the needs of a genuine outlier.

On the other hand, DS's first primary, which wasn't great, really WAS a disaster for him, partly because of behaviour, partly because of total lack of peer group.

So although it's an interesting correlation, it isn't predictable.

By the cutoff, I mean the last qualifying score - what happens at yours when the last two children have the same score? Are they both admitted or is there a tie breaker? Where I am, I think the tie breaker is distance. I must say, I feel a bit sorry for a kid with a two hour commute!

I think different schools adapt to different sorts of pupils. My DD's primary school adapted brilliantly to DC from other language and cultural backgrounds and was incredibly diverse and inclusive on that score. Absolutely not suitable for DC with SEN or had additional physical needs. Catered to a wide range of abilities and had a significant population of DC with very high IQ but could not help not the bottom end.