That glass ceiling! Part 2

[var123]

Continuing the discussion about artificial limits placed on G&T children, and the resulting impact on their health and happiness (not to mention futures).

Do they really matter less because they have a perceived "advantage"?!

original thread here:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/gifted_and_talented/2507232-The-glass-ceiling-for-very-able-children?

(Yes, a test has closed questions. No reason why teaching must)

noblegiraffe - you don't have to force its employment, just design its use. But, yes, they would do well to subcontract the actual work out to an organisation that actually knows about educating children and just pick up the bill.

understanding of maths.

teacherwith2kids - but maths and science do. How do you ask an open ended question in maths? You can say pick your own method to solve this but that's hardly open ended.

var I'm assuming that the people that Oxford University Press hired to write their textbook weren't just people off the street, yet it's still crap!

Irvine, did your DS attempt the harder questions on that monkey peaches fractions puzzle?

"BertrandRussell- yes, that is naive. Have a look at an online maths paper - soemthing that you'd find ultra-easy. say the KS2 sats and ask yourself what scope there is for thinking around the issues like an able historian might."

I probably wouldn't find that ultra easy, actually!

But- sorry- I'm not being deliberately thick- surely an able mathematician will be way beyond the 2+2 is 4 type stuff? By which I mean the meat and potatoes of maths at whatever level- the stuff you need to get a GCSE. Aren't they off with imaginary numbers and the square root of -1 and things?

var, I just explained that. Look again at nrich.

The maths I did at university was so far from having a right answer it just wasn't even in the same ballpark. By the end, it was extremely philosphical in nature with not a number or even an algebraic symbol in sight sometimes. (guess what - I found it very difficult!).

So, I know what maths really is (and its not arithmetic). However, the school stuff is nothing like that.

I will look at the nrich again. However, do those questions make it into the classroom and onto worksheets that any of the children are asked to complete? Because from everything I have seen, its just questions with a right or wrong answer.

BertrandRussell - but that's the point! If the question your teacher has asked you to answer is 2+2, then where is the scope to think more deeply?

"So, I know what maths really is (and its not arithmetic). However, the school stuff is nothing like that."

So are you saying that maths has to be taught but history doesn't?

I would say I use nrich every fortnight - and I teach a less able set. My colleague who teaches top set uses it (or equivalent) at least once a week, usually more.

But I am primary.

imaginary numbers is the square root of -1. It is denoted by i. so you would say the square root of -9 = 3i
That's about a philoshical as maths gets in secondary school. However, it is still a closed question/.

The basic history taught in the classroom is the 2+2 variety too. You seem perfectly happy with able historians using that as a jumping off point to explore the subject further. Why can't able mathematicians do that too?

philoshical - I sound drunk!

'If you know that 2+2 = 4, what else do you know?'

[4-2=2, but also 20x20 = 400; 0.2 x 0.2 = 0.04 etc - again I do this kind of stuff very regularly]

I think I'm lucky that I have found MN, here are teachers who gives us great advice like teacherwith2kids, mrz, feenie, Rafa, noble and many more. I must have been completely lost without them. And might have lost faith in teachers completely. My ds is lucky that I can do this for him.
But for able children with no help from home and school, how can they progress further?

BertrandRussell - I agree it tends to the 2+2 variety. There's not much scope for varying your answer when the question is what was the date of the Battle of Agincourt? Maybe some would answer the year, others the full date and others would say which day of the week it was, but that's about as far as you can take that answer. However, other questions like what events led up to the Battle of Agincourt do offer scope for deeper answers.

I mean, if they had proper textbooks, they can progress themselves, if they wanted to.

irvine101 - they don't. They become disillusioned or develop mental health problems and even if they avoid both of those, they massively fail to come anywhere close to their potential.

teacher - I'm not going to name the forum (an international conference for educators) but my direct source(s) are two top university departments of education. There was a lot of international consensus on this issue.

And, no, I cannot provide a synthesis of best practice in an MN post

So, able mathematicians aren't able to progress without specific teaching?

"I'm not going to name the forum (an international conference for educators) but my direct source(s) are two top university departments of education."

Why on earth won't you name the forum?

teacherwith2kids
'If you know that 2+2 = 4, what else do you know?'

[4-2=2, but also 20x20 = 400; 0.2 x 0.2 = 0.04 etc - again I do this kind of stuff very regularly]

Its great that you do this (I really mean that) but you must have noticed that many of your colleagues don't?

So, Ds1 have proved that he could do the 2+2 but in year 1, and the 4-2 as well. However, in Y2, the teacher returned to that. he went off and memorised the times tables by himself using a wall chart he found behind the sofa at home. However the year 3 teacher still insisted that he prove it, and then keep proving it. By now, he'd realised without support at school that 2020 = 210210 = 221010 = 4100. However, that didn't stop him doing it endlessly for years to come. Gods know, if they still think that he could do with a little more practise.