What is your school doing with their highest achievers under the new NC?

[amillionusernameslater]

I'm very about the new approach to G&T pupils of deepening not letting them learn new things.

What are others' schools doing with those who are well ahead of year group expectations in maths in particular?

I agree, ellie. Why lie? He wasn't going to do anything, so why bother making up a test to justify it?

I asked Ds1 again. He has a phenomenally good memory (due to having dysgraphia, I think). He said he couldn't remember any test before the one on Friday morning. He said he is 99% sure there wasn't a test and DS1 has no need to lie either.
Also, if he had got the result of a test, and it wasn't good. I think i'd remember it because he'd tell me and be distraught for a while afterwards saying things like he's an incompetent idiot etc (and other perfectionist related stuff).
Anyway, the main point is that the school won't help but aren't men enough to own up to it.

Var, reading your post makes me so sad.

Honestly, I really think you should contact Justrichmal?
From past post, sounded like she/he experienced same disappointment from school, and got over it(BY home school?). If I remember correctly, her/his DD(YR7?) has done GCSE early and now working on A levels at secondary.

What's happening to you is not completely irrelevant to my ds in the future. I really wish you a good luck and peace of mind. Forget about idiots and just do what you think best for your DS.

I'm sure too it was justrichmal who did the gcse early to solve the same problem.

God knows why he's lied. Especially in an email. Can you perhaps in an underhand way get proof of when the test was? Eg maths teacher verifies preferably via email the date of the test, and then use the timetable as evidence of the timing coinciding with his 'known' result? And then pull the hod on his blatant lie as persuasion to offer ds some suitable work, even if that just means occupation rather than learning? Such as an extra period to go in the library, work on weaker subjects, past ukmt stuff etc.

It was Justrichal, i remember it last eyar. Her DD got a GCSE whilst still at primary school.

Re the secondary school, i just don't want to go to war with it. Experience at primary taught me that you can't win. I'll home teach maths and let them do what they want to.

So, the list:-

1. It will be better next year
2. Your child IS making progress (its just invisible to the naked eye)
3. We are doing what the govt has told us to do.
4. learning isn't a straight line, sometimes it plateaus.
5. You are deluded about your child's abilities
6. he may well be able to do it, but he hasn't spontaneously demonstrated it three different ways to me (because I won't give him the opportunity)

7.You are hot-housing or a horrible parent in some other way

1. He got a question wrong 3 weeks ago. That proves the work is challenging.
2. I'm the teacher and I decide what your DS can and should do, so back off!

I was offered no. 1 in July and nos. 2 and 5 last week, with a bare-faced lie so that no. 8 could be invoked too. I felt like there was an undercurrent of no. 7 and I suspect I'll be offered no. 9 soon.

I made that list up off the top of my head (well based on specific memories), but its proving to be more true than I imagined.

I think that list should be included as a sticky at the top of all g&t threads.

Wow! Just when I thought there was no point hoping for anything from schools at all, DS1's (young) English teacher has emailed me, in response to a couple of questions I asked her. The reply was helpful, insightful, directly answered my questions, made it clear that she knows my son beyond what he vaguely looks like and where his seat is, and most amazingly of all, it offered proactive solutions.

I am almost tearful that someone took the trouble to do this!

Great news

Fantastic news var123! :) I'm glad you managed to find a great teacher at last. Someone that actually seems to know your son quite well and sees him as the individual he is.

I hope something good happens with his maths teacher too, once they realise how gifted he is.

I was actually impressed at DS1's school today when I asked him about his day and he started telling all about his maths lesson. He said they worked on addition and subtraction, but that at the end of the lesson they gave them some extra problems to see if they could solve them and I thought the problems were quite challenging considering what I keep hearing about other schools where the able children are bored working on things such as number bonds to 20 and in some cases to 10 when they are in already in Y2!

One problem was about 17 children eating 3 sweets each in one day, and how many they ate in total in 4 days. DS1 solved it using multiplication (17x3 and then the result multiplied by 4 days). The other problem was something like 51 children eating 6 sweets each in one day, and how many they ate in total in 5 days. DS1 multiplied 5x6 first and then got a bit stuck trying to work out 51 x 30, but apparently was very close to getting it right.

To me that surely seems more than merely practising times tables of x2, x5 and x10 which I believe is what the Y2 curriculum covers.

My dc's teacher openly said they hate the new curriculum because they can no longer teach what dc needs to learn and it's really holding them back

Can I ask what you would in this situation?
Dc1 has completely disengaged with school. We've had a patent evening and even his form teacher mentioned it.
I explained about the fact he is basically bored (not in those words though). Asked about the UK maths challenge, any clubs like astronomy (ie NOT sport), any project going on that he could get involved?
BIG blank. Oh well I'm not sure what there is for the Y7.....

Now do you think I will have any luck in them trying to make engage again with school?
I'm really worried he us going to take less and less interest and stop trying (and then get poor results etc etc)

That is a completely rubbish response from the school. Is changing school an option?

However, whether it is, or it isn't an option, I'd be looking at how he has come to feel like that after just 5 weeks (he's in y7 right?).

Is the work really that boring?
Is he partly saying it as a cover for not making friends? etc

Then if you conclude that your Ds1 isn't being challenged, and is unlikely to be, I'd look to moving schools as a first choice. As a second choice, I'd be encouraging at least one thing he finds challenging e.g. PE and making a deal that he'll do his real learning out of school but please behave yourself in school.

Yes he is in Y7.
Can't change school as this is about the only one he can get to within a reasonable distance.

Dc1 has already worked out that it is never going to be challenging/interesting so has already said that when he is in 6th form he wants to be somewhere else 'better'....

And yes, that's what they managed to do in 5 weeks.... It IS true that these 5 weeks have mainly been about assessments and knowing where the children are. They have just been put in sets in maths (that will help). All the reports from the all the teachers are brilliant, all commenting how well he is doing.
The problem is that his expectation of Y7 was that he would finally have something meaty to do. And he was faced with the opposite.

His form tutor mentioned he could have a word with the maths teacher so he could maybe give him some word problem to do at home . Somehow I think that dc1 will prefer doing his own self learning as he has done before rather than 'word problems'.

I'm going to try and have dc1 helping at out tennis club. he really likes tennis and I'm hoping that giving something that requires responsibility will give his sense of growing rather than getting that from school.

I'm worried he is also disengaging from friends too. That is another worry but I'm not sure how to tackle it. I can hardly force him to spend time with them....

You could ask what his target levels are for the end of the year. They should be set by now, but you could always wait another week or so to be sure.

And you do have the options to contact the head of year or the head of dept, if it is a particular dept causing difficulties.

However, I am of the firmly held belief that you cannot make schools or individual teachers do what they do not want to. "For every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction", said Isaac Newton (3rd law). He wasn't thinking about 21st century state school teachers, but the rule fully applies. as hard as you push, you'll just be pushing against a quickly reinforced, brick wall.

So, I doubt much will change this whole key stage, and maybe not in the next one either and you need to figure out a Plan B.

Last year, DD's end-Y7 target for maths was one whole level progress from her SAT L6=6b, but for everything else it was:

(Reading SAT + Maths SAT + Writing TA)/3 + 2 sub-levels

[There are annual national tables for converting between SATs marks, points, fine points and level:sub-level.]

It was mixed-ability for everything but maths. I got the impression all subjects taught their standard departmental lesson plans for Y7 and the differentiation was what it clearly is at secondary: a sham, a vacuous slogan.

Despite that, DD magically achieved her end-Y7 target of two sub-levels progress, no more, no less, in everything but drama. That was even true of maths, where she hit the target of 7b before the end of the autumn term and was banging her head on a 7a assessment ceiling for the next two terms i.e. they "accidently" reduced her overall end-Y7 rating to a 7b they had predicted, but she had long exceeded.

Levels are a crock. They're especially annoying if you've got a whizzy child because that makes it a lot more obvious that they're a crock.

Oh levels....
I asked what were his levels according to to the baseline assessments they spent their time doing.
Was told, they are using the SATS results...
Right. I suppose that's why you did a baseline and why there are some discrepancies then... (Eg dc1 was assessed as a 5c by the teacher, 5b by the secondary school but a 4 by the inspector who looked at his work at school...)
And of course wo talking about all the subjects they didn't have in primary anyway.

var what is your planB?

Mine, atm, is to give as much responsibility as I can to dc1 outside school and treat him as he is re maturity and ability rather than by his age.
So I'm hoping he can help at the tennis club and get some responsibility like this.
I'm also thinking about some sort of volunteering and some clubs (astronomy) if we can find something.

I would love the school to allow dc1 to enrol in sort of project, whatever it is, that he will really want to be part of, so he can still have this keenness about school.
And I certainly will go to see the HoY if things don't improve.

My plan B is sort of constantly evolving! Currently it is:
Ds1 year 9 - generally have grown up conversations with him about how to handle school. ie do the best you can in the subjects you strongly dislike and give them up in July. Focus on giving more erudite written answers in the word based subjects and always do the extension work. Try to do things the school's way for maths I.e. put your hand up a lot and do the extra curricular g&t stuff to show interest. However, don't stress over how easy and slow moving the classwork is because I will teach you at home starting soon.

Ds2 year 7 seems to be enjoying secondary. He is easily coping with the work in all subjects except art and dt and he's well used to boredom in maths having learned to cope with it every year since he was 6. Hes had some fun easily beating a boy who arrived from a different primary convinced that his rightful place was at the top of the class for everything. When he gets bored I will tell the school twice maximum that he isn't finding the work challenging and then pick up the slack at home.

Both boys are heavily encouraged to conform at school and to accept that it's not perfect. They both know that it won't be OK if they start to mess around at school or even think about disrupting lessons and to be fair, neither seem inclined to do it. Both are encouraged to explore and learn about the world outside of school.

Then I am promising myself that I will move heaven and earth to send them to a truly good school for A levels.

dc1 was looking a bit more upbeat in the last few days. Turns out that they are going to get their ipads soon and he is hoping they will finally get to do some work....

I had to tell him it might not change a lot of things as he will still get things quicker than everyone else. He wasn't happy :(
But I don't want him to get big expectations just to be disappointed again.

@VaR(I work in a bank and its mean Value at Risk for capital calculation and risk monitoring), i wish I had joined mumsnet earlier and/or read this thread better.

My daughter is good at maths too, she is ok with everything but better with maths, by end of year 1 she knows the time table in and out, even divisions and her mental maths is her strength, by beginning of year 2 she was told to slow down, never picked up in the class when she raised her hands (at maths lessons) and learnt absolutely nothing. She was told to slow down to learn maths in deeper term but what is the deeper when there isnt extra works, there wasnt a group either as children changed table randomly every other week. HT said he believed in mixing up children ability benefit. She had two detentions due to drawing on her friends shirts during maths lessons and told off numberless time not teaching other children. I failed my daughter by not doing anything for the whole year(busy with a new born my excuse). This year I was told the same thing that she needs to focus on deepening all maths subjects and I was told although she is now in the highest maths group of 3 class but she isnt on top as she isnt good at explaining her results(which I have to agree). She is banned from saying bored. She stops complaining but I know she isnt learning anything and she is only worried about telling off. She loves her school and coming to school though. Last year because not learning much in maths(or nothing) she was doing very well at english/literacy( which I called myself lucky). Well I think the only choice for me this year is working with her more in maths then as its clearly from many of your experience that this "deep learning" and "slowing down" dont help them in anything