What is your school doing with their highest achievers under the new NC?

[amillionusernameslater]

I'm very about the new approach to G&T pupils of deepening not letting them learn new things.

What are others' schools doing with those who are well ahead of year group expectations in maths in particular?

Yes, although we left that school 4 months after that meeting (which was nearly five years ago).

She took early retirement two years after that meeting, straight after Ofsted came in and put the school in special measures. Since then, my respect for Ofsted has been high, in contrast to MN conventional wisdom that they know nothing.

I think the way to go with bullying heads is to pretend not to notice their attempts to dominate you. Just behave like its a business meeting between two equals. Good heads will be happy with this and will take the opportunity to use the meeting constructively.

Whereas bad ones won't be able to cope and they'll out themselves for what they really are.

Either way, its a shortcut to getting to the inevitable end result.

var23 your story had me and rofl and I will need to grow some to be able to handle the meeting ...if it happens, which it may do but some weeks down the line.

That's really good advice lurkedforever and there is plenty of evidence that able kids aren't stretched - previous ofsted, no level 6's etc. Not sure whether it's actually worth it, but yes, at least I would have tried.

I always do my research and if I go to this meeting I would be armed to the hilt! Whether I actually have the presence of mind in that situation to present it all is another matter.

And to edit no 7 on the list - horrible or "unhinged" parent.

I think essentially a large part of the problem is that some adults refuse to believe that any child can be basically more able in a subject than they are. A good teacher who in terms of academic ability wasn't an effortless high achiever, can and will realise a child can be quicker thinking than they were, or even are, in a subject. The useless ones tend to come at it from the view 'I can't grasp it that quickly, therefore a child can't'.
Dds one bad teacher insisted dd couldn't work out some stuff in her head quickly, or just get something she hadn't been taught etc because as an adult qualified teacher, she couldn't.
What annoys me most about able provision is that it's not practically impossible. Some schools do it well, so no valid reason they all can't.
Fair enough introducing separate science and Latin in y4 for the most able isn't exactly practical, but in core subjects it should be possible to cater to the most able.

Just thought, if you get fsm ask what his pupil premium is being spent on.

I've asked that before lurkedforever and headteacher rolled her eyes at me! I'm not her favourite parent!

Ask again in front of lea person. The pp for your ds has to be spent on things that benefit him directly, and you do have a right to demand you see exactly what it goes on. Infact tell the head teacher you'd like her to bring the details to the meeting.

"I think essentially a large part of the problem is that some adults refuse to believe that any child can be basically more able in a subject than they are"

this is soo true (but only some adults, obviously!)

Ds2's year 5 teacher wasn't of the sweetest disposition. However, her area of expertise was maths and she was rather proud of this. There was some online program where the kids had to answer questions. She liked to run competitions to see who could get the most correct answers in 2 minutes, pairing the kids up and running it as a tournament.

None of the children wanted to be paired against DS2. (I've got a degree in maths and I can't beat DS2 for mental arithmetic, so I don't blame them). The children all asked the teacher to test herself against DS2. She eventually agreed and he won. She asked for a rematch and he won again. Now the children were laughing at her. DS2 says she got rather offended and was quite snappy for the rest of the afternoon...!

Var123 that's ridiculous and hilarious at the same time

Thanks lurkedforever I will do that! I know the school have to account for pupil premium but didn't realise they have to break it down for each pupil.

var123 if I were the teacher I wouldn't have wanted to take on your son either.

A sweet victory.

What is this? I have a G&T DD and didn't know about this? Should I be worried?

Serves her right, any normal person would have been congratulating him.

the thing with the Y5 teacher was that she was another of the "you are deluded" and the "I am offering challenging work" camps.

When i think of it, she was a lot less willing to offer those views at the next parent's evening.

The more I remember about primary school, the more I am glad that its behind me. Saying that, I am contemplating whether to bother trying to get the head of maths at secondary to offer Ds1 some challenging work as he hasn't had any since February.

We are in Scotland - when my DD was at primary school she used to come home saying she was bored and maths was too easy. She was our first DC so we weren't sure what level children should be capable of at her age. She asked for maths books and did maths at home. We then saw she was able to do maths at National 5 level (GCSE?). At her primary 6 parents meeting the teacher said that she wasn't as good at maths as she thought she was. Well, to prove that she was, she sat the National 5 exam and passed with an A. No comment from the school.

We thought things would improve when she started high school. Unfortunately not. The school aren't interested in her. She goes to the library instead of maths classes. She sat her Higher Maths (A Level) this year and passed with an A. Again, no comment from the school. She is interested in Physics and we asked if she could join a physics class - told the timetable doesn't allow for it. No praise, no encouragement. Very sad. We wish we could afford to educate her privately.

Rightly so, pupils struggling are given help but I think pupils capable if more should be 'helped' too.

Var123, yr5 must have been really embarrassed!

My ds had similar thing. Few maths loving children were put together to do mental maths competition against teachers.

He got 1st place, and ds's yr2 teacher was really happy and congratulated me on pick up. She was laughing that she lost against him! I really miss her now.

yr5 teacher!

They don't want to hear it. I have a strong feeling that when they discuss it between themselves in the staffroom, the consensus is that the parents must be hothousing, we are probably ruining their child's childhood and we simply don't appreciate the there is so much more to education than exams.

I think I had some sort of romantic, how green is my valley type idea of how the teachers would enjoy teaching a very able child, but I was clearly completely wrong about that one!

I recently learned - on MN - that teachers need only get a C in GCSE maths at school. Some do better, but that's all that's needed to get into teaching college. I think it explains a lot - including how they seem to prefer teaching the less able. Maybe they are just gravitating towards the children who remind them of themselves at that age?!

(Yes, I am writing slightly tongue in cheek, but in my wider moments I have wondered!)

irvine101 - yes, she must have been. the children absolutely loved it though. They still talked about it a year later.

queen they don't have to have individual accounts afaik for each pupil, but they do need to explain what it's been spent on. So eg if the pp of your ds and 5 other able kids has been spent on an activity/ equipment/ staff member etc that is primarily for their benefit, that's ok. If you look on the schools website it may say somewhere what pp is collectively spent on. At the least you can put the head teacher on the spot, because assuming they haven't helped you extensively with uniform and trips, equipment etc, then not using it for him at all is something ofsted can quiz them on.

var teachers like that seem to early on come to the conclusion 'this kid will meet my targets easily, so can be crossed off my list of jobs'. Therefore when you object, it's like you're giving them an additional problem. Instead of the reasonable request your child gets their state right to an education. Have you tried asking for ukmt stuff? I know entering won't exactly fill lessons but past papers would at least be more fun than whatever he's getting.

love have you looked into bursaries at independents if you have any local?

Lurkedforever1 - yes, I tried asking for a UKMT solution in July when I had a brief chat with the head of dept. He shot the idea down instantly (wants everyone doing the same thing).

The school will do UKMT this year again, but there will be no preparation for it, just like last year.

Its an outstanding comprehensive. I am beginning to learn that one fo the things they excel at is sweeping away parental concerns. I have years of experience of dodging through this sort of thing from primary school, but I got well and truly beaten that day.

The issue, as always, is not wishing to be viewed as one of those parents. Plus, not trusting my DC to back me up, to be honest.

Has anyone else experience of their DC endlessly complaining of boredom and describing work they've long since mastered, but as soon as a teacher asks them about it (following prompting from the parent), the child immediately gazes at the teacher and says what they think the teacher wants to hear i.e. "The work is both interesting and challenging but I am coping well with it, thank you."

Last time, DS1 did that to me, I came home, poured myself a glass of wine and promised "never again"!

"Has anyone else experience of..."

Yes. In that kind of scenario the thoughful child's most rational move is betrayal because parents will still love them tomorrow, but they don't know what to expect from the teacher.

I assumed that is why schools like DD's seconday insist on them being present at parents' evenings etc.

var would they object to you printing past stuff off and sending it in for him? Or if you can find one an old o'level textbook. Doesn't interfere with the hallowed curriculum, and although I get the impression your ds is older than my dd therefore the actual maths side won't be as challenging, it was the outdated terminology that made it 'fun' iyswim, so might work the same for yours.

No, not had dd betray me, however I think that's down to the fact we got lucky with her primary, therefore the one bad class teacher, and the short lived supply teacher who had it in for her she was happy to share her feelings on with the headteacher.

Lurkedforever1 - I doubt they would as the objection was having more than one activity going on in the classroom. Extension work was the HOD's solution and he asked Ds1 to come back to him about now if he didn't feel challenged this year.

I've been asking DS1 each day for the last fortnight, what he did and how challenging its been. On a scale of 1-10, its not been higher than a 3. However, today, Ds1 said that it wasn't easy, at least a 6.

So, I know its a bit premature, but maybe the maths will be occasionally challenging this year after all?

DS1 is in year 9 by the way.

Fingers crossed they might. And if not that at least the hod will actually provide challenges. Especially if they start getting jumpy about what ofsted might think about their able provision.