MMR - another US case

[saintlydamemrsturnip]

news report here

Interesting - will check out saccromyces

turnip i don't know how you find the patience and forbearance to even respond to mso I really don't.

Yes, but he has zero compliance and can't really cooperate with tests at all. He has some red lenses (we tried him out with lots of different ones at home and he kept choosing red ones) which seem to do something but hard to tell without language, and he won't really wear them anymore.

tints can help, possibly just keep letting him try on inexpensive sunglasses or keep the red ones around to see if he goes back to them at times?

I do a "non-verbal assessment" where i put yoked prisms on the patient and then observe for any changes in behavior. It can be challenging though.

He's not keen on glasses (except my sunglasses which he wants me to wear at all times and keeps running off with so I can't find them agh!!!)

Red is definitely his colour. The first time he put red ones on he ran off and checked out leaves and things outside.

He could respond to a 'point to the....' test providing it was done in a familiar environment.....

The whole thing with tints can be very interesting. I'm going to a workshop on that very thing in about two weeks.

I have a test called the Broken Wheel Test where I can determine visual acuity when the child points to the correct "broken wheel" on the card. But even if you can't get that you can still do a non-verbal battery for yoked prisms. It can even be done with a Balance Master using electrodes that stick to different areas of their head. The field of vision therapy is blowing wide open with things now that we can use on patients with all sorts of developmental challenges. (I am probably getting to the nerdy boring stage now - I tend to do that...)

I don't think ds1 could do the broken wheels thing ( too abstract) and there is no way he would have electrodes on his head! (I dread the day he needs an EEG). it's a shame really there is so much out there that could potentially help but when you child is severe it's so hard to access it.

I'm currently putting together a website aimed at families dealing with this end of the spectrum. I'd love to include something about tints and maybe think of a way it could be made more accessible to this end of the spectrum. Maybe we could have a chat about it?

Mrs T - have you heard of Michael Ash, and Natasha Campbell McBride? They both have a strong interest in gut links to health and write some great stuff. Paul Shattock is a lovely bloke but can be quite hard to get hold of (too busy) - Mike Ash is a bit more responsive, Natasha less so.

We used to consult with mike ash but had to stop when we couldn't get ds1 to take anything. I think natasha Campbell mcbride talks a lot of sense and we have her probiotics (although the company seems to have been sold)

saintlydame, I'd love to talk with you about it some time, especially after I take this workshop in June. I'll be thinking about ways the testing can be modified.

Does anyone mind if I semi hijack here?

tree, I'm sure one of the others will come back with a more insider view, but you could email Paul Shattock - look up the Autism Research Unit at Sunderland University and the contact details are there for you. He will be able to give you some idea; or you could try Dr Rosemary Waring at Birmingham University, who did some excellent research into sulphation in the gut and put forward some ideas on which children are more likely to be at risk from immunological "insults".

There is as yet no hard and fast way of telling who will react to any vaccine and who won't - but the higher the number of immunological "disturbances" (e.g. family history of asthma, eczema, allergies, autoimmune disorders; large amounts of antibiotics at a very young age), the higher the risk potential. And then there are the genetic issues; and then you have the idiopathic reactions.

I hope others will add to the above for you.

Cheers thumbwitch! Hello dear.

I did contact the Autism Research Unit [not Autism development unit - I made that one up ] and the chap who got back to me gave the opinion as above.

Well, we have a few of those risks you mention with dd2, sister had eczema and asthma [grown out of or milder now] plus her own cows milk protein intolerance, plus she had some antibiotics, though 2nd hand through my milk. I dunno.

The research doctor from the unit did say though that without a family history they had no issues.

Thanks for your answer.

It all gets a bit confusing as there are various models which incorporate MMR in different ways. In Wakefield's case I'd be wary about family history of Crohns. In the mitochondria case (which is about viruses really- just MMR happens to give you 3) the signs are a very mild motor delay. Which is really quite hard to spot.

There are perhaps clearer symptoms of children at risk from autism. Extreme fussiness or extreme passivity! Late to reach for toys, lack of imitation skills, problems rolling, difficulty responding to name at 12 months. Lots of ear infections (especially if treated with antibs). I would be wary about anything with any child showing those symptoms as they may be more at risk. Natasha Campbell McBride says not to vaccinate during an eczema flare up. Actually she wrote an article answering your question a few years ago for the Autism File. You may be able to get a back copy.

As a general rule just don't vaccinate when showing any signs of illness delaying it by a week is unlikely to make much difference. Giving probiotcs is always a good idea if there's a stomach upset afterwards.

Thanks for that - will look into the article you mention.

As I have no experience of Autism in this way [though my uncle is on the spectrum] it is very confusing and everything I hear is news to me.

Do you mean delaying by a week to avoid a time of illness won't make much difference to the vaccine working or to reducing the risk?

Lol at extreme fussiness. Have the dictionary definition of that right here in dd2! Will see with the other markers and try to get reading on this topic.

Thank you very very much. Your experience and ability to round up the useful info is brilliant. I know it often comes from personal experience and do appreciate it.

I mean you're unlikely to catch the disease you're vaccinating against (assuming there's no epidemic near you!) if you wait a week for your child to be well.

Some HCP's can be quite gung ho about vaccinating when a child is ill with a cold, but my concern would be that you never really know whether it's just a cold - could be something else. And anyway why make a child feel worse?

It's something that features a lot in safe vaccination campaigns/advice.

here tree, have a look at this article by Nat C-McB as well - it might be useful to you.

Thanks saintlydamemrsturnip. I thought that was what you ment. DD2 already 3 weeks behind the 3rd course of her first vaccines due to her shnuffles so am very happy to wait till it is a good time for her. She's 18 weeks.

Am listening to this on you youtube. Apart from her Russian accent which is so soothing and lulling me, I am taking it in.

Ooh you people, you're just so blummin knowledgeable. where do you find the time to do all this research and reading ? I really admire you all.

I keep lurking on these threads as it's a subject that fascinates me and I come out of each 'scrap' even more educated than before. Thank you for sharing your experiences, hard though it may be.

There's a report on the local news today that an AM (Asembly member in wales) is requesting a ruling that people without the MMR should not be allowed into state education.

Ta then.

'Why do Scientology or homeopathy exist? '

Scientology exists out of a Human need to be able to explain both the bad and good stuff in ones life with a sense that goes beyond just becuase' that is due to a sense of vulnerability and also guilt at seeing other peoples misfortune. there is also a pride related need for a sense of the immortal and a desperation to find answers that trhey feel are conclusive even if illogical to others. there is also in many cults and faith of course a strong element of gullibility, brainwashing and simple generational descendancy.

There is obviously also and ultimately the fact that people beleive. that is unchallengeable and simply is a fact.

Is science a religion? Ah there be the debate.....

'Did you mean spelling mistake MSO?'

If so I shall apologise for mine, deteriorating eyesight you see.

. not often I find something I know much about on one of these threads PMSL!.

'Well, it is but only in the same way that the jury is out on evolution.'

Ah my c and P didn't work too well (I can't read what's on screen atm- problem with screen font size after reboot).

it ws meant to C and P quote about spoiling mistakes.

And well I rather spoilt it.

thumbwitch and all - I had an email from Paul Shattock, futher to one from his collegue. He has offered to talk to me on the phone. How good is that!?

I'll update my 'mmr redflag' thread in vaccinations topic when I have spoken to him.

that's great tree! He is very helpful to talk to - my bf had a good talk with him about her little boy.
Look forward to the update!

yes he's lovely to talk to. And very self deprecating!

The man's a star - have updated thread in vaccines, titled red flag mmr.

What a kind man, to take time from his day and talk on the phone to random women! It's also his birthday so Happy Birthday!