Spincter injury, fistula - support eachother?

[Cyee]

Hi everyone,

Wonderful weather we're having

I am propped up in bed post-hospital and I was wondering if anyone out there knows of, or would enjoy/benefit from, a thread or support site for people who have experienced the above (sphincter damage, fistula etc.) as a result of childbirth.

In my own experience, this whole area is a bit taboo. In fact the consultants reckon there are many women who have some symptoms related to the above, who never seek treatment. The thought of women embarrassed to discuss these matters is awful, yet that seems to be the case.

So - this (while souped up on painkillers) is a call to arms:

• Is there a site out there for women like us?
• If not, would you like there to be?
• Would a thread on MN especially for this, be useful?
• Would it be useful to share experiences with consultants/physios/hospitals/procedures?

If these matters resonate with you or anyone you know, it would be great if you could point them in this direction. I'm going to post in the 'health' and 'childbirth' sections too.

I know too well the taboo around this. I posted on MN when I got my diagnosis and used a different name...

Hope to hear from some people soon.

Cyee
(successfully repaired as of last Wednesday (fingers/legs crossed))

Good luck kentmum!! Please post details... well, some, anyway... And at pruning...
I have pink clippers for that area... they work awfully well. You can adjust the length of the... ermmm... shrubbery, which I like - I seem to get awfully sweaty all over since I've been breastfeeding, and keeping everything trimmed nice and short works well for me... I did have a chuckle when I had my op, as I did some "clean-up" the day before, thinking that the surgeon might appreciate a nice tidy work area, so to speak...

Also (to further expose my vanity) the best money I have ever spent on myself was to have laser hair removal on my bikini line and underarms. I don't know if epilation is as big a deal in the U.K. as it is in North America (certainly if I remember correctly, the last time I visited it seemed to be a a non-issue in the rest of Europe) - anyway... pardon the digression...

The last few days I've been unhappily thinking that I might be ovulating, which of course means my periods might be coming back. I've quite enjoyed not having them. It occurred to me because I've had this funny lower-quadrant discomfort in my tum, which previously has meant that I was mid-cycle. I hope not. I was hoping for at least another year off. Not only because I honestly dread trying to use tampons since my bits were so mangled (and sanitary napkins are simply eeewwww), but also, before I became pregnant with Jackbaby, I had such horrible PMT. Not necessarily mood-wise (although DH might disagree ) but my breast got agonizingly sore for at least a week, if not ten days or the entire two weeks between ovulation and the start of my period. Really, agony. The only thing that was worse were the first four months of my pregnancy. Oh, the pain. DH said I whimpered in the night when I turned from side to side and my poor boobies shifted. And trapping them in a bra didn't help. In fact, it seemed to make things worse. So I"m hoping and praying that if my periods are on their way back, that I won't get the same kind of soreness. Honestly, after everything my bits have been through, I would really like a break!

Also... if my periods are coming back, DH will want to revisit the subject of having the snip. As a couple, we are a contraception nightmare. I can't tolerate any form of hormonal birth control. And both of us are, if not outright allergic, then very sensitive to latex and spermicide. Which leaves non-latex condoms. Which have done all right for us in the past, but they do inhibit spontaneity. And that, as we all know, is at a premium with a little one!!
Further, DH is quite convinced that he wants just one child. I think I am, too, but I am not sure. TBH, after everything that happened with JB's birth (and my pregnancy - there were some scary moments re: antenatal tests), I am honestly terrified of going through this again. (Although I am guaranteed a C/S after this op.) But... I also sometimes feel quite sad to think that I might (will, probably) never again have a bump, or feel a baby kicking inside me, or hold my own newborn, and watch the miracle of the first year... I am not ready to commit to him having a vasectomy.
Sigh.

Well.

Apologies to all of you who are having much more serious issues - such as chemotherapy, upcoming sections, or other ops. Which, gosh, let me think, is all the rest of you, while I am generally feeling terrific...
[feeling like an inconsiderate cow emoticon]

So... how's everyone else?

Thanks for the advice guys

i agree now and think I am just going to go for the section and insist on someone ese trying if they can't get the spinal in.

I am already really sore 'down there' and I had to hold a tissue against my perineum today to do a poo ( sorry for the TMI)

I have ordered a hypnobirthing CD and I am going to ante-natal classes ( in the vain hope I can be more prepared than last time ) just in case there is no time for the section as last baby was quite quick...but yes will stick to my original plan and have the scetion.

It's just too scary to risk a colostomy bag etc.

Consultant was really nice but just said it was up to me.

He said there are 3 types of people that have had 3rd degree tears.

1. Total knackered pelvic floor, with incontinece problems...2nd baby - may as well give birth again and when you've finished having kids have a good repair job.

2. Some incontince issues but it is managed with diet - recommend a section to avoid any further damage.

3. Healed well and no real problems long terms. (thats me) he said it's your choice.

He said he was happy for me to have a section but totally up to me. He said nothing about checking the integrity of the scars etc.

Midwife told me about the 3 different types of 3rd degree tear

3rd degree a) - skin, muscle and tear to outer rim of sphincter

3rd degree b) - skin, muscle and tear through 50% of the sphincter

3rd degree c) - all above and tear right through sphincter/tubes - resluting in colostomy bags.

She said mine was the b)

I keep thinking if you jump off a wall and break your ankle, it heals but if you do it again surely it's more likey to break again?? Especially if you jumped from a higher height etc. ( i.e, bigger baby or faster birth )

Sorry for crap analogy.

Sorry for jibbering on, you know when you just need to talk out whats going on in your head...

I will go for the section and just make sure I don't get bullied into a GA if they can't get the spinal in.

Thanks for listening

Repeat after me: "no TMI on this thread!"

Best of luck, let us know when the big day is decided upon so we can cheer.

I would definitely postpone decision-time re: another baby Jacksmama.As I have previously mention,if there any doubts,believe me Mother Nature has some tricks up her sleeve as your DC grows.

When he gets to 2 and starts to become more independent,and wants to be a "big boy",you do miss that "little dependant bundle".

When he goes to Playgroup and school,it can hit you again.

Ofcourse thats just been my experience,some mums just feel ....relief that they have their time back.

Thanks sawyer I'll defo let you know what happens in the end!

perv watch update
it all ended in tears........mine
ouch ouch ouch!!!!!!!!!!!!

think my virginty will never ever be taken again

Oh dear...

Oh no .

Thats exactly how I felt kentmumtj

But the difference a couple of weeks made to me!

Although I'm still tender,things are fine on the bedroom front.

Don't lose hope,just try again in a week or so.

ok back now i have a bit longer before i need to put children to bed so i will explain

all going well with the pre-heat fun

getting nestled inot it was a bit difficult as i was very very nervous poor dh every time i flinched he was sooo concerned.

all shame going out the wndow now.

we tried the 'finger' and my dh looked at me to make sure my face wasnt grimancing in pain and i was breathing like i was having a baby and trying to relax and he said all ok i said yes does it feel normal to you? dh smiled and told me it feels fine but and heres the but it was very tight, very very tight.

i do have some lidocaine and am wondering if we should try that next time.

sawyer i am 9 weeks post op now i would have thought it would have been ok by now in fect im nearly 10 weeks post op
anyways we continued and all was going well.

so we eventually got down to the proper business.

and ouch ouch ouch how do i put this politely. it er er er er couldnt fit???? or rather we tried the entrance very gently and boy did it feel stretched like a feeling i have never felt before, we could not er........ 'get it in' and when he removed what little was inside it really hurt

so ended in tears i felt hopeless and really upset that we couldnt even manage to insert what is meant to go in.

dh was fine and really comforted me which made me feel even worse

so that was that.

oh er my writting ended up back to front hope people can make sense of bits that have randomly been put into the middle

I think that was pretty clear kentmum - oh dear. Oh dear. Better luck next time!!! (Be brave. Breathe.)

I was told by my surgeon at my post-op app't (at about 8 weeks) that before we tried having sex, I should buy a set of vaginal dilators. To stretch things. Obviously. Spoke with my pelvic floor physio about it and (I don't know why I didn't post about this before, the conversation was so hilarious, and God knows on this thread we need all the laughs we can get) she suggested I save my money and buy, ahem, carrots in different sizes. You cannot imagine my face!!!! She said she was serious - I should put condoms on the carrots, and lots of lube, and lidocaine ointment if I needed it, and use them to gently stretch the opening, until I could comfortably insert a carrot that was equivalent to DH's size. (You can imagine that the conversation was interrupted by titters, giggles and outright gales of laughter - the other clients in the waiting room looked a bit when I came out...)

Anyway, I sort of thought, whatever, I'm sure it'll stretch just fine, but after reading your and Sawyer's reports, I believe I actually will follow instructions...

I agree that the "dilating" might be necessary beforehand.Also bear in mind that being that tense,and thats not critisism,as I am still pretty tense,you can almost "force" your DH out IYSWIM

Believe me,I have taken many a Smear,where I can really struggle to insert the instrument.

What I have been taught to suggest is,if you breathe in all your muscles everywhere tense up,so if you breathe out they should relax,when I get the lady to concentrate on slow deep breathes in and out,I can then insert the instrument.

Its obviously(as we all know) the most difficult thing in the world to relax when we are having a Smear,and likewise when you are in pain or expecting pain.

So I'd try the dilating,and next time if you aren't opposed to a drink maybe have a few glasses to "relax" you.

I am 12 weeks tomorrow,my repair was quite small apparently,and I am still quite tender as I said,and extremely tense.But it is getting easier.

OMG ladies I don't know whether to laugh or cry: pink clippers, impossible sex, carrots...!!! Would you please stop... as you know my pelvic floor is not what it was

Hugs to you kentmumj - hope that carrots, lube, ointment, time etc. all help. I didn't have the same experience as you but penetration did get better/easier with time. I have no idea whether it was my nerves or a tighter ah entry, but it did get better with time. The one thing I read before birth is that it is impossible to clench all your sphincters (we have many, from the obvious to our breasts and our eyes) when you have a loose jaw. Now I appreciate this is not necessarily a good look (I think I looked somewhat like Mr Ed) but apparently it helps during birth and I guess would help you establish if you're subconcsiously clenching. Also... and I am clearly straying waaaay into hippy land here... but there is amazing power in positive intentions. So every morning (when you're alone... clearly) tell your bits and that are elastic and easy to enter... seriously... make sure you're alone

Jacksmama - I really feel for your conception dilemma. It's a hard one to call isn't it?

Gillyan - welcome back - I'm sure you posted on here before. I'd also recommend a section because it seems to me that most of us ladies have some kind of predispositions to injuries like this whether it's anal fissures, unexpected tears or fistulae. I personally wouldn't take the chance of further damage.

I have probably not replied to loads of posts - but just wanted to say I'm here and thinking of you all... it's such a shocking situation we've all found ourselves in but I couldn't have found a better bunch of pervs to share it all with

Perverted hugs to all and sundry

soooo funny this post does leave me in fits of giggles

carrots i just dont know if i can think i would laugh sooooo much that it would be impossible anyway

yes next time im going for alcohol and lidocaine and maybe a er runner bean with a condom on as i think that may fit

i too had laser hair removal in my nether regions and would recomend it although i didnt have it all off hence the trimming required lol

cyee will try postioning a mirror above the bed to watch facial expressions

jacksmama how many weeks post op are you now? and when do you think you will get the all clear? and why have they not given you the all clear yet?

sawyer i do understand about relaxing and i probably was tense due to being nervous, thye did tell me i had a large repair not that that should make any kind of difference i wouldnt have thought. Anyways i really dont fancy the idea of dilators not just yet anyways but i will bear it imind

Any wasy im off to prepare the veg for my roast dinner .............

ROFL!!!! Right, I, too, will never look at carrots the same again!

Let me see, I am how many weeks post-op ... bloody heck, I haven't had enough coffee yet (it's before 8 am in my time zone) - anyway, my op was Feb 9.

Whoops, hit "post" too soon.

Right - I am 12 weeks post-op (had to count on my fingers ). I saw m surgeon at 8 weeks post-op, and I believe there were several reasons why she told us to wait to have sex:

• my op was more extensive than she'd anticipated, and she is a avery careful and conservative woman
• there was an undiagnosed tear in one of my pelvic floor muscles and I think that she wanted to make sure I was good and healed so it didn't open again

- she removed what we thought was a polyp but what was actually a traumatic neuroma from my internal scar - basically a red-hot screaming clump of nerve tissue that proliferated in the scar and was hurting me every time I moved

• I had a lot of nerve damage and lots of pain and she wants to make sure that when we do finally have sex, it doesn't hurt (much). My surgeon's specialty is chronic pelvic pain and she is very concerned with women having healthy sex lives eventually, and she knows that ongoing pain can/ will cause problems, both emotionally and physcially

I think that's why, anyway. She's very cool, I am seeing her again in a few weeks, will report then.

How's everyone today?

my op was week afer yours 24th feb no 2 weeks after you ..cor i cant count now either

ouch ouch ouch all sounds horrid doesnt it oh to be a man

where u from jaksmama

Think of "Mounties" and Big Fir tree's and you'll have guessed it!

Bunch of Carrots is the prize

cyee yes I remember your name now, thanks for the advice.

carrots OMG! Well what a credit crunch tip So sorry kentmum that you are having so much trouble, hope you're ok.

Has anyone seen a thread on here about 'as long as the baby is healthy at the end that is all that matters!' oh dear, the things some people say. It is clearly not all that matters is it.

Still think I'm going to have the section, my bum is bleeding a LOT now and I know it's from internal piles but I'm blaming them on what happened last time. I know you can get them when PG anyway but didn't get them first time round.

I'm feeling really tender down there and feel like I did when I was healing from the repair last time.

The thought of straining too hard to do a poo terrifies me a the moment so god knows how I would push a bloody baby out!!!

I saw that thread about "all that matters is a healthy baby" and I was so angry I was shaking. I posted on it as my alter ego - had to stop myself before I got too angry. I thought there were a lot of good posts on that thread, and it's given me some verbal ammunition for next time someone makes a fuckwitted thoughtless comment like that.

Kentmum, I'm from Canada. I live on the West Coast, in British Columbia in a suburb of Vancouver. We're about half an hour from the border with the United States. Lots of fir trees (lots of trees, whatever kind), and I live in "The Horse Capital of Canada". Down by the border, where my MIL lives, there are actually more horses than people, LOL.

Oh dear Gillyan - - I remember feeling like all my insides were going to fall out after they yanked Jackbaby out with forceps! I am really glad you're still leaning towards the C/S. Honestly, nobody knows what's best for you except you yourself, but I hope that's what you decide on. I really have to say I took my bits for granted before I had JB... never again!

Carrots, anyone?

Right, so when we fill up this thread, is that what we'll call the new one: "The Ragged Bits Club, Part 2 (previously known as the Support Thread for Sphincter Injuries etc)"

Or....AKA the Raggy Dolls!