Please or to access all these features

Add post

Watch this thread

Save thread

Start a new thread

Flip thread

Hide thread

My feed

Active Unanswered threads

Getting started FAQ's

Unanswered threads Acronyms Talk guidelines

Hide shortcut buttons

Talk

General health

Mumsnet doesn't verify the qualifications of users. If you have medical concerns, please consult a healthcare professional.

Flip

1 2 3

Original poster

Anyone find that crappy line 'being positive got my ... through cancer !'

65 replies

lilyloo · 05/05/2008 20:49

I am sorry but bearing in mind all the people on here currently going through this and people who have lost someone to cancer on reading this in another cancer survivor story today i can't help but feel cross at it!
I find it wholly insensitive to anyone who has lost somene to cancer!

My mum didn't die because she 'wasn't' positive she had everything to live for, was only 45 and left behind a loving family who needed her, she couldn't do anything about it!

OP posts:

Dragonbutter · 05/05/2008 20:50

I read a book about this. I'll find a link.

georgiemama · 05/05/2008 20:52

I completely agree, I hate how whenever someone famous dies of cancer the papers automatically write about a "battle" (or even "brave battle") with cancer, which kind of implies that people have been engaged in a fight, which they have lost, and could have won if they had tried harder. I loathe it.

Dragonbutter · 05/05/2008 20:54

C: Because Cowards Get Cancer Too...By John Diamond

He discusses the resentment of being told to be positive. That it suggested that those who die of cancer didn't try hard enough.
He also talked about how people kept calling him 'brave', he said he wasn't brave, he wouldn't for one moment 'choose' for this to happen to him.
Fascinating book.

DefinitelyNotMARINAWheeler · 05/05/2008 20:54

Agree with every word you write lilyloo.
I don't know ANYONE who has not dealt with their cancer diagnosis bravely and resourcefully. Most have survived, some died
I am so sorry about your mum

NotABanana · 05/05/2008 20:55

When I phoned my MIL to tell her my Nana had cancer again and only months to live, she said she would die if she had given up. The fact is that my Nana had been given 3-12months to live. She had been a widow for nearly 30 years and had had enough. Even the fact that I was weeks off having my 3rd baby wasn't enough for her, and while it hurt at the time, I understand now. I had words with MIL but I don't know if she felt differently. Her mother died of cancer 2.5 years later.

JRocks · 05/05/2008 20:55

Lilyloo I'm sorry to hear about your mum, mine is currently having treatment for breast cancer and I can't even imagine what life would be like without her. The only thing I would say here, is that being positive (and she doesn't manage it everyday) helps my mum to face some days. It certainly does not reflect on or make more efficient her fight or her or my family's desire for her to be better. I hope that makes sense. I hope your pain eases a bit over time x

unknownrebelbang · 05/05/2008 21:00

Quite lilyloo.

My mother and MIL were ill more or less at the same time, and died within a month of each other.

My mother was very positive throughout her ordeal.

MIL wasn't positive about her illness at all, and more or less gave up once diagnosed.

They both died.

Different cancers, treatments, etc.

They were 54 and 65, so not old.

Blandmum · 05/05/2008 21:00

I hate it, and so does dh. We cope because you don't have an option.

dh says it is only bravery if you choose to put yourself in danger.

I do think that he carries himself with a fair degree of 'grace' given the shite and pain he puts up with

pushki · 05/05/2008 21:01

Completely agree. My brother died aged 40 of prostate cancer a couple of years ago, and was the most 'positive' of people - fit, lived life to the full. Ironically had reduced his working hours just before being diagnosed as wanted to be there for his two young dd's more, go out mountain biking etc. He didn't want to die, and I remember someone launching into that crap about it's the positive fighters who survive - I kept cool because I didn't want to end up thumping her! Cancer is crap and good people die however hard they battle - end of my rant - sorry

Original poster

lilyloo · 05/05/2008 21:02

Thanks ladies my mum has been 'gone' for nearly 7 years now but still i see this stupid , insensitive line being rolled out again and again!
Cancer isn't a choice and 'fighting' it isn't a choice it's a lottery and if you ever have to endure this horrendous disease the outcome is nothing to with the attitude you have shown to this illness!

Dragonbutter what a great title!

OP posts:

MellyJ · 05/05/2008 21:05

I agree so wholeheartedly. Feel it somehow demeans those who've died, as if they didn't 'fight' hard enough against that bastard disease. My Dad was a brave, brave man who died aged 58, 8 years ago. I kno he did what he could, same as anyone who has it does. Think you maybe have to have been thru it to understand....

onlyjoking9329 · 05/05/2008 21:07

i agree with you there lilyloo, i think steves family think they are being positive, i think they are in denial, the two things are very different.

RosaLuxembourg · 05/05/2008 21:09

Absolutely agree. It wasn't negative thoughts that killed my Dad, it was a bloody great big tumour.
Incidentally, I gave the John Diamond book to my brother when he was diagnosed with cancer, he says it is the best book on the subject he has ever read.

Original poster

lilyloo · 05/05/2008 21:10

Very true OJ , i couldn't help but think of you and Steve when i read this too , maybe your right Melly and only someone who has never been touched by it could say soemthing so 'utterly ridiculous'!

OP posts:

MummyDoIt · 05/05/2008 21:11

I kind of agree and disagree with this one. Dad was given six months to live when he was diagnosed with cancer of the oesophagus. Mum never told him that and he was a very positive person. He ended up surviving for five years which is an extremely long time for that kind of cancer (bearing in mind that it was stage 4 when he was diagnosed). However, DH was diagnosed last year, same cancer, also stage 4. He's even more positive than my Dad was but not doing nearly so well. I do find it very hard when people don't want to listen when I say his cancer is terminal and, in all likelihood, he will die within the year. They come over all disapproving, like I'm giving up on him or wishing him dead, and tell me to think positive. If only it were that simple.

Hassled · 05/05/2008 21:13

Thank you Lilyloo for starting this thread - my mother was also 45 when she died of cancer. I actually had a bit of a "moment" earlier today when I found a photo of her and worked out she would have been 41 when it was taken - I'm 41 (for a few more days). She looked so young and pretty! And she was a positive, determined, argumentative, opinionated woman who had a successful career and a good life. Some things just can't be fought. It's shit, however you look at it, but don't pretend it's all down to "attitude" or positivity.

Original poster

lilyloo · 05/05/2008 21:16

Mummy i'm very sorry.
But i think that sums it up your dad was 'positive' and survived 5 years, dh is more so and 'doing less well' and to suggest your positivity could change the outcome i find absurd! Surely every family 'hopes' for a positive outcome ?

OP posts:

eenybeeny · 05/05/2008 21:17

I hate that as well. My wonderful nephew died of cancer when he was 11. A happy, loved, smart little boy. His Mum (my sister) was positive ffs as was he but you know what - he had a disease. A disease that medicine can not fix. And he died. So would anyone say it was HIS fault? Or his Mother's fault? That is the implication when they say positive people do well because they are positive.

I have heard a lot about the power of prayer and positive thought etc. and although it has ITS PLACE it is not a prescription for a cure for anything. If someone shoots you in the head you can be thinking of the nicest possible things but you will still die.

People say this kind of nonsense sometimes because they dont know what else to say. We arent as a whole very good dealing with death. And some people genuinely believe it to be true. But IMO that is a very thoughtless stance - it assumes if you are good enough and happy enough and normal enough etc you will live. And that just isnt fair. Some things kill. No matter what.

I am so angry about this because of the way some people treated my poor sister when her little boy was dying. I am sorry if I have upset anyone by saying some things are indeed fatal but I think it is a fact of life that needs to be dealt with without the blame and guilt.

Original poster

lilyloo · 05/05/2008 21:34

Well said eeny

OP posts:

TheDuchessOfNorksBride · 05/05/2008 21:36

It is a stupid, thoughtless quote. Unfortunately, cancer is something my family excels at - and I've seen them all be positive at some stage of their illness, some right up to the point where the morphine dosage tipped them into their final unconciousness. If only the cure was so simple.

milfAKAmonkeymonkeymoomoo · 05/05/2008 21:42

I think being positive when possible makes a sh*t time a bit better but it doesn't lengthen your life and no-one can be positive 100% of the time! (my first DH died from cancer at 34 after a year of disease)

the bravery thing I have never understood,I was told countless times that I am so brave (after he died) but what choice did I have and few people knew how I felt inside.

Original poster

lilyloo · 05/05/2008 21:53

to all those who have had to / are going through this.

OP posts:

WanderingTrolley · 05/05/2008 21:56

I think the suckiest thing is that anyone with a diagnosis of cancer is automatically obliged to be positive and brave - no they're not! It's entirely understandable and probably v healthy to feel like having a shout, scream and cry and be bloody terrified and furious and grief stricken and doom ridden all the bloody time.

I worry that anyone with cancer in some way feels they should conform to what is now thought of as the norm, ie being brave and positive. I just think a good howl is called for at regular intervals, and I think that that should also be acknowledged.

Being positive and brave all the time is exhausting. It's awful to be in a position where people don't ask how you're feeling, they tell you instead. You're doing so well. You're so brave and positive. I'm in denial about your cancer.

Blandmum · 05/05/2008 22:05

and sometimes people outside the situation want you to gloss over it. Not that long ago some-one I know chirply asked , 'How is your dh getting along' and I said, 'Not so well, he's just come out of the hospice and he is still in a lot of pain'

and they almost seemed insulted

Earlybird · 05/05/2008 22:08

Was John Diamond Nigella's husband?

Flip

1 2 3