Anyone find that crappy line 'being positive got my ... through cancer !'

[lilyloo]

I am sorry but bearing in mind all the people on here currently going through this and people who have lost someone to cancer on reading this in another cancer survivor story today i can't help but feel cross at it!
I find it wholly insensitive to anyone who has lost somene to cancer!

My mum didn't die because she 'wasn't' positive she had everything to live for, was only 45 and left behind a loving family who needed her, she couldn't do anything about it!

a lot of people have no idea how to react to the negative side of cancer mb, and would prefer a good day fact is they are far fewer than the bad ones!

Yes, Earlybird, he was. An excellent journalist and an amazing man.

yes

I totally agree, lilyloo.

I think people are just terrified of not being in control

I haven't had cancer, but I have had a life threatening illness and a year's treatment for it - during which I heard the 'think positive' stuff several times. I worried, I stressed, I let myself imagine bad test results and how I'd cope each time I had a blood test (my way of dealing), and I came through with flying colours.

I heard the whole 'don't stress, think positive' thing when I was miscarrying four times as well. The two successful pregnancies I had involved just as much stressing, bleeding, and worrying as the four before them - my attitude made not a jot of difference.

Good wishes and love to those who are dealing with illness in themselves or their loved ones right now...xxx

I find the 'Your dh is so brave/tough/insert word of your choice, he is going to beat it' comments an utter pain to deal with.

Because he isn't.

Granted he is dying slower than we initially thought, but he is still terribly ill.

and We have to live with this every day.

and these well meaning idiots end up looking at you as if you have said something tactless or disloyal.

I file comments like this under the same folder as the ones us SN parents get about being 'special' and 'blessed'.

The folder is entitled, 'Either pass the bucket or I'm going to punch your lights out.'

MB - completely relate to how people don't want to hear 'bad' news. I told someone at church (who asked) about my Mum's cancer before Christmas - not too much detail, but it was clearly grim and said I was having a hard time (think I welled up telling her). This woman could not get away from me fast enough.

Mum died in February, and even though I've seen this woman a fair amount since then (even sat at a table with her last week), she's never asked how I'm doing or said she was sorry to hear the news.

I guess you can be honest with some people, but others who ask, don't really want to know.

Also included in this are people who tell infertile couples that if they relax the woman will fall pregnant, or if they give up trying/adopt the woman will also fall pregnant.

MB
It is a cruel irony that when you are going through the pain of a close relative's terminal illness, you end up being expected to spare other people's feelings.
Denial goes very deep however. 24 hours before my Dad died, my sister was still insisting that she would wait to travel to be with him 'until he was feeling better'.

That comment was said to me. I used to tell them 'I'll give you a million pounds if you don't think about a white horse.....see you just did'

Bloody stupid thing to say

When I was diagnosed "be positive" were the first words out of most peoples' mouths, including the doctors. People now tell me they can't believe how "brave and positive" I am. They don't see the scared and crying wreck I sometimes am, and which I feel guilty for as if I'm letting myself down by not being positive permanently!

people don't know how to handle death and dying, i can't begin to tell you how many times people have come up with some crackpot treatments that they think will work, if you don't embrace the waving chrystals about your head whilst chanting in a northerly direction at sunset then you obviously don't want a cure
And everybody knows someone who has had exactly the same kind of cancer as Steve and they are now cured , it makes them feel less hopeless, but it makes me want to scream.

You lot have no idea how good it is to read this thread and know that I'm not the only one driven mad by the relentless chirpiness of everybody around us. And you're so right that people seem insulted or offended if you dare to admit that your loved one is going to die. I asked for a meeting last week with our Financial Advisor (who is also a family friend). I needed to be clear about what is going to happen financially when DH dies. He did come over and talk over a few things but I got the distinct impression he thought I was being indecently hasty in thinking about it. I'm sure he thought I was more concerned with getting my hands on the money than with DH's health. I just know that, as DH deteriorates and when that awful day arrives, I don't think I'll be able to cope with money stuff too so I wanted to get things clear in my mind before we reach that stage. Is that callous and uncaring? It's really not meant to be that way but I have two small children and need to make sure the roof stays over our heads and we have food on the table.

The latest one we are having to cope with is that DH has reached the last treatment available. He starts his third type of chemo on Friday and there's nothing else to try after this. Already people are saying 'what about clinical trials?'. Well, yes, he has considered this and did in fact put himself forward for one last year but wasn't eligible. The oncologist said the only ones available at the moment are very early stage where they're still testing dosage and it's likely that, even if the drug works, you might not get enough of it to do any good or you might get too much and be really ill with side-effects. When the time comes, it's up to DH whether he wants to put himself through that. I will support whatever decision he makes but people are already talking about and I worry that the implication will be that, if he doesn't go on a trial, he didn't 'try' hard enough to be cured.

I think I might write a book on how to speak to cancer patients and their families!

Mummydoit, thank god our finacial advisor is fantastically matter of fact about the whole thing....the reason? His dp died of cancer not that long ago, in her early 40s.

As soon as dh got the diagnosis he wanted to sort out the finacial side of things, so he has peace of mind that we are 'provided for'. and out financial guy has been great. Simple pragmatic help.

People 'need' to say the following, 'I'm so sorry, this is so unfair, can I help, I'm thinking of you'

and re the clinical trials, I think that your doc has given you very good advice on the early clinical trials, I used to work in clinical trials and I wouldn't go for an easly one, for the reasons that he has given you.

Hugs to us all

The problem is that people in our society (and the American one--which is where a lot of our cultural references now come from) have almost grown up to believe that there is something unnatural about death and dying. Until comparatively recently in human history all of us would have experienced 'early' deaths in our families. We'd have lost children/sisters/husbands, etc, and while still appalling, these losses would have been regarded as 'normal'.

I think people are anxious about death and dying in a way they weren't when it was more commonplace. They just don't know how to deal with it so the bit about the 'fight' fills the gap.

It's obviously not true: I lost two friends to cancer within a year or so: both had young children. If anyone was going to want to 'win' it was them but they still died.

some bloody fool actually posted on MN that she felt that cancers were 'caused' by being negative. I was more than a little at that 'idea' as you can imagine.

Part of these feelings are, I think, rooted in the hope that if you are positive, nothing bad will happen to you, or your family. And people subconsciously feel ,'I am a positive person, therefore I'm safe'

MB, our FA's wife also had cancer but hers was treatable and she's completely fine now. Maybe that's why he finds a terminal diagnosis hard to accept. Of all the people we know, he's one of the worse in accepting that, in DH's case, there will be no cure. He is a very good FA and takes care of us well but, like I say, there was this underlying disapproval that I was being premature in talking about what will happen after DH dies. I committed the ultimate sin by saying the dreaded 'd' word!

and while you are brigt enoug to see his reason, and kind enough to make allowances, it is still a major PITA, isn't it.

We are off to the hospital to see dh's oncologist today to discuss treatment options. I think that dh will decide to stop active treatment at the point, but he will decide after getting the results of last week's scan.

"but I think we have moved on from the point where people cross the road to avoid you"

Oh if only that were true. I know of people who were actively avoided when their respective loved ones died regardless of how old they were and I've seen that attitude at first hand. Eenybeeny commented that as a whole we aren't very good at dealing with death - I entirely agree with that. I think we all need to remember that as in life we are in death.

Bloody hell, my Nan wanted to live FGS!!!. If someone had dared say to me that she died because she was not "positive" enough I would have hit the roof and then that idiot. She died because she contracted MDS (a form of leukaemia which is more common in elderly people); not because she was not positive enough. Even the cons said "she was unlucky" to contract MDS.

On a different subject altogether the book written by the late John Diamond is well worth a read.

Yes, yes, yes!!!

I have secondary breast cancer. At the moment the treatment seems to be holding it at bay but I know it'll get me sooner or later. My closest friends all know that I don't want to be bullshitted about my condition and are wonderful so I am very lucky.

Acquaintances, on the other hand, are something else. It's the people who say "don't you look well!" or "they can do such wonderful things these days" I hate with a passion.

MM

Great thread. I remember when a friend of family came to see us after seeing my dad very ill in hospital. He said 'I can see in his eyes that he's bloody terrified and that makes me terrified too'. My brother and sister were mortified and thought this old friend of my dad's had a bit of a cheek (he spoke very frankly and bluntly about 'all this being positive boll*S')He made me cry and laugh and stood out as the only person who said what they weren't meant to (IYKWIM)
BUt, I quite liked talking to those who said 'he was brave etc'. Thye seemed more respectful of us. Now I think that this man really did not consider our feelings at all.
Is it wrong to say 'be positive'/'be strong'?
What do you say to someone when you just want to give them a bit of strength/support? I am interested.

completely agree with the op. well wishers to my dh would often say things like that. peed me right off though I know they meant well it made us feel we weren't doing all we could to get through it. My dh was a very positive kind of guy, didn't help him though

earlier on in the thread I suggested that people say the following

'People 'need' to say the following, 'I'm so sorry, this is so unfair, can I help, I'm thinking of you' '

and then take their lead from the person who has the cancer.

saying 'Be strong' get very old very fast.

Plus people with cancer don't always want to talk about it, but may want to talk about normal stuff, its best to take the lead from them. If they need to unburden, listen. If they want distraction, talk about the latest gossip.

Don't be shocked it they use awful black humour over it.....my 11 year old dd once shocked the hell out of some one over tea by saying, 'Do you know, we are going to end up arguing a lot over who gets the 4th cake out a pack of 4 when dad dies'

just read your post onlyjoking and completely agree with that statement too. Was going to type something similar but couldn't find the words.

We had that all the time too. 'eat peanut butter and will cure you type of comments' and you're right, if you don't they think you don't care. I remember saying to DH, you have to give conventional treatments time, you can't just bounce around from one thing to another which he agree with and felt under pressure from friends to put every notion into practice. I'll say again though, we know they meant well.

I must say even having lost dh, I find it hards to talk to people going through it, though I think of you all often. ((hugs))

and 1 lovely mumsnetter, you probably know who you are, i'm sorry i've been a coward and not spoken to you personally.