norovirus has turned my life upside down - mears needs to offload

[mears]

Unfortunately 90 year old Dad went down with it on 22 December - terrible watery diarrhoea and vomiting. Ended up admitted to hospital in the afternoon with dehydration. Mum then got it followed by me, DH, DD then 2 days later by DS3.

We all bounced back but Dad is still in hospital, still off his feet. We take turns to go up at meal times to encourage him to eat and drink but it is getting harder and harder. Nursing staff are looking after him well but they cannot be expected to sit for 1.5 hours to get him to take something like we do. He has Alzheimers and usually co-operates better for us.

Am now facing a huge dilemma. On Monday he was classed as medically fit but needing rehabilitation to regain mobility. Problem is he is getting sleepier and sleepier and eating and drinking less and less, therefore isn't awake enough to mobilise. Physios are going to work with him but can't come till the afternoon because the ward has been closed due to D&V since Sunday.

He was quite bright when he was on a drip and initially he wasn't allowed to drink because he was at high risk of aspiration because he sounded chesty. Then he was allowed thickened drinks which he didn't really tolerate. He couldn't be assessed for drinking at the weekend or over festive period as there was no speech and language therapists on duty, so it was 3 Jan before he was allowed to drink fluids. In that time his drip had tissued so he was behind in fluids really.

Is he not eating and drinking because he has given up or is it because he is dehydrated?

We are waiting for him to be transferred to a hospital closer to home for rehab, however the way he is looking today, he will never be able to get out of bed.

If that is the case, he may be better transferred to home with a care package but goodness knows how long that will take.

My nurse sister and I have decided to ask for him to be dripped again tomorrow to get fluid into him to rule out dehydration being the cause of his sleepiness and lack of eating and drinking. Don't know if the medics will agree however I do think there is life left in him.

He was fine till the D&V hit.

If he doesn't improve then mum wants him home and so would I, but I am not sure we can cope with the care needs. This is the very thing I dreaded happening to him. He has been in bed so long now I don't think we will get him up again. Don't want to see him languishing in a geriatric ward either.

Wish I had a crystal ball.

I'm afraid I can't help but i have a lot of sympathy

I hope you can find the answer.. and he improves his health with his family around him

x

babe

Mears, again no advice i'm afraid. Just wanted to acknowledge your post. What a terribly difficult time for you. xx

Would he tolerate an NG tube as a way of getting fluid in.

oh bugger mears

What a shocking Christmas you've had. I've no idea really, but it makes sense to ensure his fluids are good to rule out his malaise being down to dehydration.

At 90 years as you know, although generally healthy, they still have frail immune systems etc. It can take quite a while for them to get back up again after a nasty illness.

I dont want to be doom and gloom, but I dont think it right to get your hopes up either. Sorry

Thanks for your posts - wasn't looking for advice really. Just wanted to write it down I think. No-one can really help.

Sorry about this Mears

I know absolutely bugger all medically, but the idea of trying to hydrate him to see if it improves his overall condition sounds like common sense to me. Only he knows if he's given up, but is it possible that if his physical condition could be improved with a drip then he might feel better enough in himself to start fighting?

Will be thinking of you.

Oh, mears.

Just wanted you to know you're not all on your own.

I wish there were a crystal ball, too.

Crossposts there.

I don't think NG tube would be tolerated. Drip might correct dehydration and make him more resonsive.

I know at 90 he will not be here for long but I just think perhaps he needs the chance of IV fluid to see what happens.

His drip stopped before he had the chance to establish eating and drinking. He was quite perky once the D&V was stopped and he was getting the drip. His potassium dropped at one point and that was corrected which again perked him up.

The ideal would be that he perked up a bit to get him more responsive and out of bed.

If the drip didn't help at all then the decision would be where does he go? Elderly rehab unit with strangers or home with a care package. I would prefer the latter but I will be the main support for my fairly fit 75 year old mother. Can I achieve it? Don't know.

god it's awful isn't it

we have just been through similar with dh's gran

I see no harm in trying the rehydration theory out.

What would happen if you couldn't cope at home?

Crystal ball would be nice wouldn't it.

Sorry you're going through this

I presume we would need to find a nursing home for him which would be hard.

It might be easier to have him transferred to the rehab unit and see how he gets on - they have long stay beds too. He might be settled and it is very close to home.

I never wanted my Dad in a home though

my parents are dead so i don't have any experience of caring for older parents

i think any thing which means he is better when they discharge him is good

staying in hospital past the point when you could leave is not good either

i think you ask for what you feel is the est treatment and rehydration sounds good

Oh mears, how horrible for you all.

I don't understand why they took the drip out when they did? Or, when he started regressing, why they didn't put it back in?

rehab unit sounds good

very sad when our parents get old.

I don't want to get old

my experience is that if you speak out for your rleative then they do get more/better.different treatment so don't hold back

He was running out of veins really - the drip tissues a few times and they were also taking regular blood samples, so that is why they decided to go without it. We thought it would be OK once he was drinking but he really doesn't take that much in.

I am going up to the hospital in the morning to try giving him breakfast and I will speak to the medics. We have to try this I think to give him a chance.

Might have to be bolshy Better get to sleep.

Thanks for the posts, it has made me feel better.

be bolshy

really do

it makes a big difference

you know about medical things

push

and I hope he comes home and has time with his family

x

subcut fluids?

Sorry you have all this worry mears. I hope your dad perks up.

Mears. I am so sorry you're going through such a worrying time.

I know dehydration makes it extremely hard to eat/drink, it was my main problem when I was severely anorexic a few years ago.

I hope they agree to try the drip again, even for a few hours as it could make a lot of difference and restore his appetite, albeit temporarily.

Thinking of you all at this horrid time xx

Just to give a positive story - similar thing happened to my grandad. He had given up on life after my grandma died, and stopped eating and drinking to the extent that he ended up in hospital. He did have visiting care workers, and also my aunt who is an experienced geriatric nurse helping him at home, but they couldn't do anything for him.

In hospital he wouldn't eat or drink, and the nurses didn't have the time to help him so family members had to visit for every meal time (I know nurses have a lot to do, but I think they should have covered some of this, but anyway..). We all went up to see him to say our goodbyes as the doctors advised that it wouldn't be long.

My aunt arranged to have him transferred to a nursing home (luckily her experience meant she knew how to pull strings and get him into the best one). They put a drip in which perked him up no end, then he started eating and drinking himself, then got out of bed, and is now completely fine. He loves the nursing home - he has a great time there, and it's a pleasure to visit him there.

Hope you get something sorted for your dad

MEars - if you want him home make sure that they get the local reablement/ rehab team involved at home. It might be that he wont be getting "rehab" but the physios, OTs and sometimes nurses in these teams will understand about what you need for caring for him safely at home - ie

bed downstairs
hoist, hospital bed if hoisting, pressure care etc

As an OT I would say give the residential rehab a go if he is medically fit (in real life, NOT just the Drs opinion!) - great if it works, but it means he will already have had his care needs assessed for either going home or to resi.care.

Also, if you as a family cant provide the care then tell the social worker etc again and again until they listen - enjoy being your dads daughter not his carer if you cant do both.

hth, all the best to MrMears Snr.

Mears, you say he's chesty. Might be worth getting the drs to check that he's not brewing a chest infection. These can be a major reason for possible decline.

ask if he can have a subcutaneous drip in his skin in tummy rather than IV then you do not have to worry about lack of veins and tissuing. I work on elderly care ward and drs favour subcut fluids over IV and they are very effective for rehydration.
take care

Mears, do push for the drip. We had a similar situation to Lauras with my fil, who was given several very happy months, by being put onto a drip. Your dad will have been terribly weakened by this awful bug. If his system has fought it off, then using the drip to rehydrate might perk him up enough to start eating again, or at least you to be sure whether he has given up or not.

Thinking of you.