If you decided to delay or to forgo MMR, how did health professionals react?

[usedtogotomars]

Just wondering about this (and haven’t yet decided) - do they respond in a way that respects your view or do they try to persuade you to have the vaccinations given to your child?

usedtogotomars.. No they are not allowed to pressure you into vaccinating. It goes against the GMC's guidelines on respecting a patients decision. They can loose there licence. GMC- ''Professionalism in action'' Section 6 states ''Serious or persistent failure to follow this guidance will put your registration at risk''. You have the right to take as long as you like in making a fully informed decision. x

“You have the right to take as long as you like in making a fully informed decision.”

What constitutes a “fully informed decision”?

That is up to usedtogotomars. It is their choice no one else's

www.gmc-uk.org/guidance/ethical_guidance/consent_guidance_respecting_patients_decision.asp

That's the point Isn't it Bertrand. The BHS has decided on our behalf that all DC should be vaccinated. Their information is therefore based on their prevailing mantra printed in an easy to read leaflet. Generally HCP's can share the leaflet and none of the infirmation/evidence behind it. One has only to recall Jaytee the nurse above who blamed her mumps on an unvaccinated child rather than her failure to seek vaccination for herself.

Then of course there was the public health advice to put babies to sleep on their fronts and to eat unsaturated fats rather than butter. One has only to take account of the mantra that hcps right, general public wrong and the Orwellian nature of the diktat dilutes all trust.

I use homeopathy mainly with much success. At least they don't contain an array of E numbers

It contains precious little of anything. You might as well just buy water.

My own cousin has chronic pancreatitis from the MMR ( a known adverse reaction)

Mumps can (rarely) cause chronic pancreatitis. Autism is also sometimes associated with pancreatitis where there are gastro-intestinal complications.
Evidence that MMR specifically causes chronic pancreatitis is pretty thin on the ground, not least because there are multiple causes. What was the slam dunk evidence that MMR was the cause in this case rather than just coincidental?

I really dislike OPs like you. You come on wanting advice. Don’t hear what you like and then start making people out to be awful human beings when all they’ve done is answer. Go and do your research and make your decision and own it. It’s yours to make. Just don’t get peoples feelings up with a stupid post on the internet that you knew would draw people in emotionally.

I certainly wouldn't want my anecdote to be used as the sole evidence for any decision, although it certainly provided a very graphic example that so-called 'mild' illnesses can be very serious.

I do believe in public health programmes.

I regret that scientific reporting is poor and that our ability to weigh up and evaluate evidence seems also to be poor. (The Wakefield study was small and flawed but an appetite for a certain kind of reporting gave it undue publicity.)

I think it would be good if as parents we weighed up not just what we think might be good for our own children -- 'my house, my rules' - but also for the wider community.

The evidence is from their own doctor. The poor lad was given two doses by mistake. They could not claim damages because he is not over 60% disabled.. oh well huh.. at least it's someone else's child and not yours.

My most sincere apologies if that is how my posts have come across to you, mama

I will be honest and say I don’t know which of my posts specifically you mean, but the thread has run over several days and so I can’t remember but rest assured that I don’t post here to make anybody feel like an awful person.

But with respect this part of the board is called Vaccinations, if you feel it’s too emotional for you maybe you could hide it. I’m not trying to be rude there but I don’t have anybody particularly I can talk to in real life about it and Internet forums are ideal for such questions so I’m not going to stop posting about it, although I do of course regret it if I’ve caused you any personal grief.

When my DS was young, my GP said they were happy to discuss at any time and would be there if and when we decided the time was right to vaccinate.

We moved and had a new health visitor who was uncomfortable with the decision and offered us an appointment with a paediatrician. At the time, DS was seeing an immunologist and was very reactive to lots of things including, lactose, MSG, yeast, latex, antibiotics, and some metals. Given some of these ingredients are present in vaccines.. (vk.ovg.ox.ac.uk/6-in-1-vaccine) it was agreed that we should wait.

DS has had serious reactions to tiny amounts of substances and it has a huge impact on his immune system, the fact that there are trace amounts of these substances in vaccines is not relevant in his case. DS is older now and I hope that his immune system will continue to improve and that one day, should the need arise, he will be OK with vaccination.

In the meantime, our pediatrician is aware of his vaccine status and I read as much as I can about childhood diseases and their treatment. I know what the tetanus risks are and what should be done in the case of an at-risk wound and what kind of medical treatment is best practice and that vitamin A reduces the risks of serious complications of measles. I wish I didn't have to know all of this but I am doing the best I can.

I refuse to give calpol to my child. If necessary I give a paracetamol suppository.

Just out of interest, what do you think is the active ingredient in Calpol?

Your attacking me for the wrong reason. I am not stupid. I DO NOT GIVE PARACETAMOL lightly. Paracetamol increases a child's chances of developing asthma and hayfever by about 45% in the first year of life. I hate using it. It is in my first aid box for extreme circumstances only. The one and only time he has had some is because of the ulcers he had in his mouth. He could not breastfeed because he was in so much pain. What do you think the Dr would say if I took him in? ''Give him Calpol'' ...
Calpol contains E numbers which just adds to the problem. From headaches, allergens to hormone disruptors.. the list goes on. I hope I never have to give him any paracetamol again. At least I don't serve it up like soup like a lot of parents do at every given sniffle.

Shall I be kind and just type the word “polio” ? Anti-vexxers love explaining how the dramatic decline in polio in the UK was nothing to do with vaccination.

nbroots you are very lucky your infants didn't have the repeated ear infections and high temperatures that mine did.

The evidence is from their own doctor. The poor lad was given two doses by mistake

That doesn't actually answer the question - what was it that proved the relationship? I can see why someone would assume it but coincidence is not causation and that is the problem with so much of the commentary around vaccination. For instance if there was evidence that the double dose caused the pancreatitis that would become a negligence claim rather than a vaccine damage claim (which are intended for problems which may be caused by normal vaccination procedures).

They could not claim damages because he is not over 60% disabled.. oh well huh.. at least it's someone else's child and not yours.

What a spiteful comment to make. If you want to make a crude categorisation of vaccinating v non vaccinating parents it isn't the vaccinators who are ignoring the well being other peoples' children.

Nbroots is lucky her kid is still alive, considering the level of parental neglect!

I guess she doesn't approve of antibiotics either, eh? Nasty chemicals after all....

Nbroots, how did the medical negligence claim go?

Then of course there was the public health advice to put babies to sleep on their fronts and to eat unsaturated fats rather than butter.

But evidence grows over time and sometimes this changes the picture. That doesn't make the advice at time X wrong, it simply reflects the best overall evidence of the day and is often obfuscated by bad or sensational reporting.
The overall picture around saturated fats has not changed that much - however fads and fashions in diets cycle around and muddy the evidenced advice. Pollen's summary of dietary advice is still valid.

Individual HCPs may be good or bad - anyone with a lot of exposure to healthcare will have come across both types.

Op why not look into titer testing?

The basic argument about vaccination is you need the vast majority of the population to be vaccinated for it to work. Therefore it’s not just personal choice because “choice” for individuals affects everyone. Not that some people care about anyone else bar themselves. All this angst over what children are given is just beyond me. I wanted my children to be safe but I didn’t obsess over it. No-one I know did either. We just gave medicine when needed, fed wholesome food and vaccinated because we cared about society.

Bertrand, I don’t really consider myself an anti vaxxer, but I do have concerns over this particular vaccination (MMR) and my concern is exacerbated by the fact that when I do attempt to find things out, most of the literature available is very much in the one camp or the other and so it is difficult to come to an informed decision.

Have you read this IOM adverse effects of Vaccines Evidence and Causality

looks at all the research available and also whether there is a mechanism for the vaccines to cause particular side effects. Also good information on the actually disease

ie Mumps

"The average incubation period of the mumps virus is 16 to 18 days but can range from 2 to 4 weeks (Litman and Baum, 2010). Fifteen to 20 percent of mumps infections are asymptomatic; 50 percent of cases have nonspecific symptoms such as anorexia, headache, fever, and malaise, or present primarily as respiratory infections; and only 30 to 40 percent demonstrate the classic salivary gland tenderness and enlargement (parotitis) (CDC, 1998). Asymptomatic infection is more common in adults, while parotitis occurs most often in children age 2 to 9 years (CDC, 1998). Children younger than 5 years old more commonly manifest symptoms of lower respiratory disease (Plotkin and Rubin, 2008). Complications of mumps infection are possible without the presence of parotitis. In 1958, Philip et al. (1959) observed testicular and mammary inflammation in 5 percent of postpubertal men and 31 percent of women over 15 years of age. Pancreatitis occurs in 4 percent of cases, and although it has not been proven, evidence suggests an association between mumps infection and diabetes mellitus (Sultz et al., 1975). Neurological complications are more common in adults and occur three times more often in men than in women (Plotkin and Rubin, 2008). These complications include mumps meningitis, cerebellar ataxia, transverse myelitis and poliomyelitis-like disease, cranial nerve palsies, hydroencephalitis, and encephalitis, which occurs in less than 0.3 percent of cases, but is responsible for more than 50 percent of mumps-related fatalities "

Bruffin, I’m not a scientist, not even particularly academic :) I’m just a worried parent to be.

You dont need to be a scientist to read that book, its easy to dip into, just click on the relevant chapter.