MMR worries

[archiesmummy]

DS is 15 months old now and we are thinking of doing the single jabs rather than the MMR vaccine.

I've tried to gather as much information as possible, but I'm not a medical person so be patient with me please.

I'm wondering about "traces of measles founds in the guts of children with autisme" at a higher percentage than in "normal" children.
Would this mean that the measles jab is also an increased risk to (yes I know a very small percentage of) children?

Also, I read a thread on here a while back where someone said they were gonna leave the vaccines for a few years anyway. When I was young (in Sweden) we got the MMR jab at 8-9 years old. Was there more cases of Mumps, Measles & Rubella back then?

Hope someone can help me.

Thanx

Sorry what I meant with giving organic food was that to me it seems silly to pay out and have the wonderful organic lifestyle when pumping such vaccine ingredients into the body at the same time.. seems pointless to me.

My family tree consisted of a lot of doctors and health professionals all of which are no longer with us, but the "no vaccine reccomendation" has been passed down our family from them. I know a few people who have contracted Polio from the old live vaccine and a few others who have had adverse effects and who have also contracted the illness they have been immunised against.

I don't feel it a safer option giving my family the vaccines after seeing so many problems. I agree with Soph28 it depends on the case history it can be the final straw for some. In our case we are one of those familys.

interesting Hillary- us too. And whenever I've mentioned ds2's and ds3's lack of vaccinations to dr's they've been surprisingly (imo) OK about it once I explain our family history.

um actually Wakefield has been discredited.Investigation by the GMC for one. Also re his conflict of interest as he had been developing a rival to the MMR vaccine. Link below:
www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article391141.ece

He has called for a an enquiry- none has taken place yet.
He has also published a response to the accusations concerning the funding issues. Lots of politics there.

His research has not been dicredited. As yet no paper has even examined whether MMR may trigger autism in a subgroup of children (which is his hypothesis). He also described autistic enterocolitis, the existence of which has never been disputed. It's causes may have been under dispute, but the condition has never been. It is now very difficult to get treatment for this conditon on the NHS (maybe you can still through Simon Murch). You have to go to the States. crazy.

If you type Treating Autism into google, thenfollow the links to the conference papers you can find a very recent presentation from him. (From February this year). Bang up to date.

here's the reponse to the enquiry call bit out of date, but last I heard he was saying he was seeing it as an opportunity to clear his name.

read the article,he has been discredited by impartial journalists and many of his peers.

Of course nothing here is 100% conclusive and there will always be research proving the opposite viewpoint.

I think we're going to have to agree to disagree here.

SHow me an article in a peer reviewed journal discrediting his actual hypothesis (not the MMR causes all autism hypothesis which was never his (or anyone elses). There are plenty of journalists who do support him as well, but I'm not sure that journalists count.

Also know of peaditricians who have quite happily told parents off record that their child's autism probably was MMR triggered. So I'm not sure that all Andrew Wakefield's peers have discredited him. How many autism expert gastroenterologists are there in this country now? (Clue: I can't find one, and zero point seeing a non-expert- they'll find ds1 untreatable).

I have found with the debate in vaccinations/immunisations there are 3 catagorys.

1, Those all for it
2, Those against it
3, Those who were for it, had a bad experience and now against it

Its a very heated debate as all parties are very passionate about it and want to advise due to their experiences, those who have had no negative experience regarding vaccinations cannot understand those who have. They will never be a happy medium especially when its something as important as our childs health.

What a wise post Hillary- you are so right. Oh I'm firmly in camp 3. I thought they were wonderful things, marched ds1 down to the surgery to get him his men C (when it was introduced )"how soon can he have it pleaassee" Now I think- what on earth was I doing? If you had told me 10 years ago I would have ended up not thinking that vaccinations are wonderful for everyone I would have thought you were very mistaken. After all I was a scientist, with a PhD in a science subject. I "knew" they were safe. My mum had been left completely deaf in one ear from measles.... what decision was there?

I still go cold sometimes when I think of ds2 and ds3 being completely unvaccinated, but then I think of actually taking them and getting them done and go a whole lot colder. When I said something to my Mum about vaccinating ds3 (my mum of the deaf in one ear from measles fame) she also had switched completely- "oh you can't vaccinate your children', which interested me as she works as a nurse, and I thought was more establishment. I thought she understood why I hadn't, but without necessarily agreeing 100% iyswim. So interesting that our experiences made her switch views as well. Nothing like personal experience (and living with your mistakes!)

RanToTheHills, Dr Wakefield has not been discredited at all as the people who disagree with his conclusions have yet to come up with any concrete scientific evidence that stands up to any sort of examination. Many of the experts who have criticised his research have been accused of conflict of interest due to their connections with vaccine manufacturers.

There is a lot (of money and reputations) at stake in the vaccination issue and the information that the general public has access to, particularly in the mass media, is clouded by politics and financial interest. I have done a lot of research into vaccination as my eldest child is vaccine damaged and I will not be vaccinating my children again.

People talk about 'a tiny minority' that is at risk of vaccine damage with no factual information on which to base that claim as vaccine damage is notoriously under-reported. Even if we assume that there is a 'tiny minority' why on earth are health professionals happily vaccinating every child they get their hands on without checking first if the child is statisticaly vulnerable to vaccine damage? The doctor who vaccinated my child never once asked about any hisory of autoimmune disease, etc. I think this alone is a scandal worthy of a great deal of parental anger.

This thread is fantastically helpful in setting out the issues - am really glad to be reading it, even if dd is only small still and the decision a way off.

But one thing I have been wondering about, is the precise definition of autoimmune disorders. We have a considerable history of asthma and eczema on both sides of the family - but does this count as auto immune?

Also, dd hasn't had antibiotics yet, but has been exposed to 2 doses already (thanks to persistant mastitis here). Do I count these?

They don't count as autoimmune but are lumped in as risk factors. I'd be more interested in whether your children have eczema (bit young for asthma maybe?). Natash Campbell MCBride (Dr, nutritionist, and some extra neuro qualification), says not to vaccinate during an eczema flare up.

sorry half finshed sentence- more concerned with whether your children have eczema themselves (rather than just in the family).

oooh you have my sorts of dilemmas kerrymum. Ds3 has leaky gut as well. So my view on vaccination is that I won;t say a blanket 'no', but I want to be sure that it is something that he really needs (so I lok at how likely he is to get something vs the disease and how likely he is to not recover completely from the disease).

I have decided that I probably will give a single measles jab as ds2 and ds3 reach puberty as measles goes a step up in nastiness then. If I can get a tetanus that doesn't come packaged with 5 other vaccinations then they can have that as well.

DS3 has a lot of ear infections, but his leaky gut concerns me. I don't think ds2 does have a leaky gut, but he can get quite wheezy. Sometimes I wonder about getting him a single measles jab a bit earlier. I would be less nervous about vaccinating him than ds3.

All shades of grey though. Toss a dice?

Hillary.
Count me as group number 1.All for immunistions.
Dd1 died from a preventable disease and if the government had not delayed the introduction of the Pneumococcal vaccine(prevenar) then i would still have my daughter.
I know how much damage these diseases cause and if you had seen the devestating effects meningitis had on my little girl your views on vaccinations might change.

If we have a group 3 who are against it because of personal experiences, there needs to be a group 4 who are for it for the same reason.

oh come on Kathy it's not some sort of joke. These are real children being damaged because of vaccinations or because of diseases that can be prevented by vaccination. Real lives destroyed and damaged.

Personally I think the program needs a radical re-think, done in an open way. AmyJade's dd may have been saved by the introduction of the vaccination earlier (which was delayed on grounds of cost- although it made far more medical sense to introduce it rather than the men C) and children like my ds1 might be living independent lives as adults. As a consultant said to a student when discussing an unvaccinated ds1 (we were talking about penumomoccocal disease) "Of course one must rememver that the real advatage of vaccination is to the herd and not the individual".

By checking out family histories first of all,and putting monetary costs aside (such as thimerosal free jabs costing $1 more than ones containing thimerosal) it is possible to introduce a program that does its best for every child. Both those who are more at risk from vaccinations than average, and those that aren't.

What I'm saying is that preventing the death of AmyJade's dd and preventing the severe disability of my ds1 do not need to be exclusive. Both interests can be protected under the same vaccination programme. Done sensibly.

ok I have one ear out for the bus so am mistyping- it was an unvaccinated ds3 who was being discussed- ds1 was kept up to date for all vaccinations until his regression.

I wasn't joking AT ALL Gess. Saying that there are people who have experienced (possible) vaccination damage and not acknowledging that there are also people whose children have been damaged by the diseases prevented by vaccination is biased and irresponsible. Accusing me of joking because I dared to bring that up is just ridiculous.

i didn't think she was joking

I would have thought it would make more sense to enure that the vaccination programme was as safe as possible for ALL children than pitch numbers against each other. I

Slightly unfair to suggest that we just gloss over the damage the real diseases do anyway- I said a few posts below that my mum was left deaf in one ear by measles.

How insulting is it to write (possible) vaccination damage?