"Doping Your Children"

[Tigermoth]

My childminder recently mentioned I could buy some phenergen for my toddler, if I was having problems with him on long car journeys, as a very last resort. It helps them sleep. She's very responsible and gave me lots warnings about it. I decided to look up this message thread to see what others think. What a revealation!

All of you who think that sugar does not have an instant effect are misinformed. Sugar is very rapidly absorbed into the bloodstream and in some children has a very instantaneous effect on their behaviour: they become hyperactive and aggressive. Sugar (as found in sweets, chocolate etc) is rarely found in natural foods (other than honey) in such high concentrations.
I don't think that giving children sweets occasionally is a bad thing but I don't think they are best used as a pacifier.
It has been well catalogued that children whose blood sugar levels are high because of drinking fruit juices and by eating sweets, eat less well (i.e. nutritously) as their body does not think it is hungry.

Some common sense here please! Clearly if your child is made hyperactive or has some other reaction to sugar, it would be daft to give them sweets. My little boy has no discernible reaction to sweets or junk food of any decription - even ones which clearly have vast amounts of additives / colouring etc.

Of course sugar doesn't appear naturally in food to the same extent as in sweetd. Nor does salt in processed foods or a multitude of other examples.

I would assume that for a child's blood sugar level to be high thanks to sweets would entail eating a considerable amount of such foods. All along in this debate the focus has been on sweets only as part of a balanced diet.

As regards sweets and teeth - I was watching a programme the other day & the dentist said that if children ate sweets their teeth would decay, no matter what the brushing routine. The level of decay could be slowed down by only eating as part of a meal, always correctly burshing teeth etc but could not be totally prevented. She also said that they see a lot of children nowadays where the enamel is wearing thin due to fizzy diet drinks - which have far higher acid content than the non-diet versions, although less sugar.
My dds school runs a 'healthy eating' initiative where the children are encouraged to choose heathly alternatives for lunch and snacks. Sweets are not allowed at the school at all. The also suggest that you shouldn't send in snack boxes of raisins, as the very high sugar content, and their tendency to get stuck in back teeth causes decay.
I realise this doesn't have much to do with doping your kids but though you might find it interesting.
BTW I have been guilty of doping my child after 2 years of not sleeping for more than 1.5 hours at a time. I'm not particularly proud of it, but in the same situation I would probably do the same thing again. Weighing it up against the balance of our family life as a whole, I think it was the right thing to do, and it does seem to have broken a pattern that she has been in since she was born (and yes, we did try all the other things first). I would never give a child sedatives before a car journey, but I have never been in a situation where I thought that was the only alternative. I think that just makes me luckier than some of the other mums here, not a better mother.

Funny how those us who early on commented that we wouldn't ever consider "doping" our children were castigated for our so-called condemnatory comments and yet to read some of the postings here, those of us who give our child sweets are bordering on child abuse!!

Gracie, no one has posted that giving your children sweets is tantamount to child abuse. I think that a general point is being made that sweets are not very good for children if used on a regular basis as some kind of comforter or pacifier.

Gracie, I think if the worst thing we do as parents is to give our children sweets we haven't really got a lot to worry about! However, I recently read a Manchester paper, and the horror stories there about 3 year olds with a mouthful of rotten teeth (with pictures) were awful. Personally I think anything such as the site, which causes parents to stop and think about what they are doing, and why, is good, even if we carry on doing it afterwards. At least it won't be just because our mothers did (like the mum with the roast beef)

I had assumed that it would be obvious I was being light hearted!. It's just that the whole debate started with the assertion that giving a child sweets (that is on an occassional basis, as part of a balanced diet and with the focus on good dental hygiene)is as bad as or possibly worse, administering somethineg like Phenergen to an otherwise healthy child for your own benefit. Frankly I am downright amazed at the number of people who seem to agree with these sentiments...

Debsb, there are some parents who do, give their kids sweets just to have a quiet life, keep them out of their hair, get them out of the way and hand them out willy nilly, most of us though who do give sweets give them in moderation and don't feed them as a staple diet. It is entirely up to the individual if they give sweets, but those who do give sweets shouldn't be condemmed. My kids eat most fruits and have veggies as well every day, in the meals I make, they both brush their teeth twice a day, eldest 3 times as she does hers at school as well, and at our school their is a healthy eating programme as well, but there are still parents that think this is a lot of s*e. Now they are the ones who should be condemmed, another thing, my dentist says that sweets are ok in moderation, but did warn of the reduced calorie fizzy drinks, as they were worse for teeth.

I was surprised to hear that reduced calorie drinks were worse for teeth than standard ones. We're quite lucky in our house in that the kids like fizzy mineral water. We have even persuaded our youngest that blackcurrant diluted with fizzy water is 'coke' - worth keeping up while it lasts I suppose!
On the subject of snacks, I'm running out of ideas for heathly but tasty break time snacks for the kids, & she's only been at school since September. Any ideas, or should I start a different board?
BTW I give my kids sweets also, & would like to say it's only as part of a meal but unfortunately it doesn't always happen that way. It does give me something to aim for though. I also find its a good incentive for teeth brushing.

Hi all. I really think (unless there is a medical reason for otherwise) that children and adults can live by the same basic rule......moderation.
A few sweets/bags of crisps and anything else that takes their (or your) fancy isn't really going to do much harm.

Now....if only I could just break my 15 Mars Bars a day habit!

You got it Twinsmum!. That's all we've been saying all along.

OK, we've done sweets and fizzy drinks, what about alcohol and coffee - what is an acceptable age for children to be allowed to have them? How many people do you know that have dipped a baby's dummy in their alcoholic drink or even done it themselves? I am keen to introduce my son to alcohol in the home when I feel the time is right, but when is right? In France I believe that young children are able to enjoy wine with their meal as it is an acceptable part of their culture. Is a weak shandy acceptable for a 10 year old at BBQs for example?

My two year old likes a milky cup of tea occasionally, but I wouldn't dream of giving him coffee, nor would I give him a glass of coke or a can of any other fizzy drink until he was older and then probably not on a regular basis.

What do others think?

Actually, along these lines I have a rather embarassing problem with my 21 month old son. Whenever my husband or I are having a glass of wine, beer or champagne he is utterly obsessed with getting hold of it. He then takes a very large slurp and worryingly, seems to enjoy it as he gets unbelievably cross when he is denied any more. To be fair, he always demands a good slurp of whatever I'm drinking (except anything hot) but I am just very taken aback that he seems to like the bitter taste of alcohol. I have virtually stopped drinking wine at home but in restuarants I get very embarassed as we have almost wrestled each other to the floor on occassions over a wine glass.

As one who had an uncle who ended his days prematurely via the daily consumption of a large bottle of Bundaberg Rum and an aunt whose week long stays were punctuated by the noisy midnight disposal of excess gin bottles, I am rather sensitive about alcohol. Given that our son basically always wants whatever I have, I guess I shouldn't be unduly concerned. It is just his lack of distate for alcohol which bothers me - do other's toddlers seem to like the taste of alcohol?.

One other thing, at present we don't really give him any juice. This is just because he has always drunk lots of water and seems happy with it and also, as he's not at nursery he just hasn't really been exposed it. I wonder whether its time to introduce it as maybe he just really likes the idea of flavoured drinks?.

My eldest daughter is allowed a glass of very watered down wine with a meal as a special treat. This means about 1/2 teaspoon of wine in a wine glass of water. I'm not going to forbid alcoholic drinks as something they can't do until a certain age, when they see us drinking wine at home. She also had a very small glass of champagne at the Millenium

Bells - My two and a half year old is very partial to any form of booze! She always has a slurp of our pint if we are at the pub (and is very fond of champagne, may have something to do with the fact that I drank it when pregnant as it didn't give me heartburn!)- only recently we found out that it is in fact illegal to give alcohol to someone so young and so it has to be done surreptitiously (spelling?). I think from my own experience as a child that treating alcohol as a normal thing to be consumed moderately we are setting them up well for life, there's no point demonising it, we all know how much toddlers like to have what they are not allowed!

You're going to hate me for this BUT ... I'm going back onto the sugar thing. Did you know that refined sugar supresses the immune system and that it's recently been discovered by docs in USA that sugar increases inner ear problems in children and adults alike?
Also - cocoa-beans are one of the most highly sprayed (with pesticides etc) crops going and many plantations are worked by children around the ages of our own kids for little or no money.
Organic/Fair trade choc is available now in supermarkets.
But, armed with that knowledge, I still let my kids have sweets a couple of times a week or they'll be obsessed with the things - although if they are ill I don't give them anything with refined sugar. I also have tinitus - when I have anything with sugar in it kicks in big time and goes up to a higher pitch. This adds to my belief that the docs are right.
Also - ask your dentist what they think about fizzy water. You may be surprised to hear that that is also bad for tooth enamel.
And finally diet drinks are dreadful for kids and adults alike - there's research going on at the mo looking into fears that they are carcinogenic.
Oh, and tea and coffee and booze - BAD BAD BAD!!!!!!!!!
So - I think the message here is only feed yourself and your kids organic water and filtered fresh air and we'll probably die from the stress of it all.
Or ... sod it and relax about what we put in our gobs and maybe we'll all live to be 100.
PS Please everyone - read Fast Food Nation - you'll never set foot in McDonalds again. Am v serious about this.

Not going to hate you at all Rachel! Similar claims as to the one on Sugar can be made for just about any refined/processed foods or additives we consume.... But again, this debate was all about whether phenergen is as bad as sweets..

Re the child labour issue and cocoa, same goes for many brands of trainers and a good proportion of "cheaper" clothing.

bells, do you have any video footage of you and your son wrestling to the floor over the wine glass, i'd love to see it!!!!

as far as sugar is concerned...my kids have always drunk high-juice squash, very well diluted, (about 8 to 1, not 4 to 1 as suggested on most of the bottles) diet versions only when dh does the shopping (he doesn't read labels and just grabs the first thing he sees) and hardly ever ribena; and up to secondary school age they have only had fizzy drinks as a treat. (after that you tend to lose control a bit...but they are still sensible because they can see what some of their friends' teeth are like...) sweets have also been quite strictly rationed too though the strictness tended to waver as i was more and more outnumbered! and i ration squash too - if i'm aware they've already had a drink recently they have to have water or nothing.

they all have almost perfect teeth - not a filling between the 4 of them - and lovely digestions. i know there is no hard proof yet - allegedly - between saccharine, aspartame etc and things like cancer but i'd still rather not consume chemicals if i can avoid it.

and the aftertaste of saccharine is so disgusting!

Tee hee Janh, no doubt it will appear on one of those telly programmes based on CCTV footage shortly!

thanks, bells, that's what i was hoping!