Periodontal disease... Stage 4. Anyone able to recover from this?!

[Nickname1980]

Just that really. As I've posted on a couple of other threads, my periodontal disease is pretty bad. And I am getting a tooth extracted next week. And have the four quadrant cleanings booked with antibiotic injections.

Are my teeth screwed always?! Anyone recover from it?!

The dentist said they'll look ugly after as the gum shrinks and I'll get the "black triangles". I used to have a good smile! I'm totally gutted.

I didn't see this coming at all! Have been busy producing kids though. I'm so diligent at cleaning my teeth. Dentist reckoned it could be genetic.

Thanks for that missy, interesting...

My gaps are big in places too (especially top front... my DD said 'Mum, you've got something in your teeth' when I haven't, I suppose the gap looks like spinach!)

My perio has said he would be willing to make the gaps look better but I don't think he wants to yet, until my gum health is down to some magical figure that seems very difficult to achieve.

If it's any consolation to anyone... one of my bottom front teeth was/is loose. It always worried me that it would just come out when I was eating a bit of crusty bread or something. Anyway... since the perio deep cleaning and me with my brushes, it is now nowhere near so loose so that must mean something is happening that is good!

Good luck with your appointment nickname

Roussette that's good to know about the loose tooth. I have one at the front that is slightly mobile and I'm hoping things tighten with the deep clean. The results on the link are very natural aren't they?

Nickname, which one of your teeth needs extracting and have you spoken to your dentist about a replacement for it (if it needs to be replaced at all - I think with the furthest back molars you don't necessarily need to replace them?) ?

missymop - Yes Tuesday! Arg! Will also be thinking of you! I am going to try really hard to see a specialist today though. I wonder if they'll be less inclined to whip out my tooth? It's one of my molars. He said it needs replacing for functional reasons. And that if (when) it goes, its neighbour will too (its neighbour is the last tooth so needs its support).

I would rather have the whole mouth done in one go. The quadrant cleaning feels like it's dragging it out. Wow your treatment is half the price of mine as well.

You don't sound like a fruitloop - all the talk of bone loss, tooth loss... it's scary!

Roussette - that's great to hear about your loose tooth!

I have been on research overdrive and have read so much about the benefits of taking both Coenzyme q10 and high dose vitamin C so I'm trying that!!

Nickname, I think once you have a pocket chart done and x-rays you will probably realise things aren't so bad. I know you still have a tooth extraction to deal with though. I feel so sorry for you, still recovering from a difficult birth and then having to deal with all of this. My dentist also told me I need to replace teeth for a functional mouth but the perio gave me links to read about a 'reduced dental arch'. I'm not sure if this would apply to you though and he did say for aesthetic reasons I'd probably want to replace teeth. If you manage to get your appoint with a perio please report back. Good luck!

Nickname... personally I couldn't have coped with the whole mouth done at once. One side of my teeth was worse than the other and the after effects were worse because of that (manageable but a bit painful). The whole mouth would have been difficult, that's just my opinion of course! I wouldn't have wanted 4 appointments though!

Missymop123 - I've managed to get myself an appointment with a specialist this afternoon for a second opinion. It's a practice called Pure Perio so we shall see! Now I have to have the awkward conversation with the other dentist asking for my X-rays so they don't have to retake! (For radiation exposure reasons.). The appointment is at 4 so I will definitely report back!

Rousette - I guess that's why they stagger them?! Part of me wants it over and done with, but I am so wimpy about my teeth! Arg I hate going to the dentist. But that's why I've got into this mess

I found this link interesting... though definitely clutching at straws! doctormurray.com/9-natural-ways-to-treat-periodontal-disease/

I'm just at early stages of this too. Good to hear there can be some reversal.

To those mentioning Corsodyl, my dentist said last week not to use this for more than two weeks at a time because it can cause staining.

One tip nickname and what anyone should do after a deep clean... My perio gave me a very strong painkiller as the treatment finished, enough for it not to hurt when the injections wore off when I was home. Worth asking for if not offered?

Nickname - That's great news about getting an appointment. I'm so pleased you've managed to get one.

Roussette - it sounds like your cleans were super thorough. Did you take antibiotics? To do the whole of my mouth will take 2 x 1 hour sessions. I've just had a look at my pocket chart and a lot of my teeth in the bottom jaw are normal, so I'm not sure if they'll need to touch those.

Yes Missy mine were major... maybe about 2 hours plus for half of my mouth. Can't remember now but I think it was that. No antibios.

Ok I got my specialist appointment today and am feeling much better about it all. Well, it's still pretty bad gum disease! But the front isn't as bad as the back. I have gum disease everywhere but not all the pockets are mega deep and the bone loss is only major at the back two teeth.

So I've cancelled my original tooth extraction and clean appointment with the other dentist tomorrow and now I'm going to use her instead. Wow is she expensive! But she explained everything very reassuringly thoroughly. She seemed very much an expert.

She said it's always worth trying to save teeth and she doesn't know yet how well my body will heal, so it's worth a try. I might get six months, a year or even five+. So it's worth trying.

The pain in the tooth is because she suspects I also need a root canal on it.

She's going to do the big clean with waterlase therapy in two stages, in one week, in early January. I'm going to see another dentist about the root canal on Wednesday.

Let me know how your deep clean goes tomorrow, missymop!

Eek good tip about the painkiller, rousette! I'm a total wimp. I wish I could get this whole deep cleaning started with the perio specialist immediately rather than waiting until jan. But I do feel better with a specialist - she seemed so good.

Nickname - this is such good news! I'm so pleased you feel a bit more reassured. I also felt so much more reassured with a specialist as well. I think my dentist would have extracted a load of teeth if I'd have just left it to him, but perio's are in the job of trying to save as many teeth as they can.

I went for a consult for laser therapy a couple of weeks ago. The root planing / scaling with one lot of laser therapy was around £2,000. You then had to commit to weekly laser treatments to get the bacterial count really low. The total cost was about £7,000. They pretty much guaranteed it was pain free though and you could pay over a year with interest free credit.

The diagnosis of your painful tooth sounds similar to my tooth that's hanging on by a thread. My perio said he's seen people hold on to these sorts of teeth for 5 years. I'm doubtful it'll last that long but it'd be nice to think it's got a chance.

I'll let you know about tomorrow and please keep in contact with your treatment as well :-).

By the way, I spoke to a lady in Seattle that does something called RPE when I first got my diagnosis. If you google 'Perio Peak' you'll get it. It has loads of information on about Vitamin D etc etc. Judy, the lady who has devised RPE, has unbelievable results. It's worth checking out just for the information she has on it about treating periodontitis like an auto immune disease. She manages to get quite a lot of bone growth with the treatment as well.

nickname that sounds spot on. I was told the same about my loose tooth... the perio said he might not be able to save it for good but on the other hand, I could get a good few years out of it. It certainly is nowhere near so loose as when I started treatment. And you and this specialist you saw is right - it is always worth trying to save teeth if possible.

Now need to start my teeth cleaning routine before I go to bed, it takes flippin' ages!

Roussette- I've just finished mine. Done them 3 times today. Perio said he'd rather I did them once well than 3 times badly but in for a penny, in for a pound.

Just read about the protocol for treating aggressive periodontitis (the one I've got). Antibiotics an hour before treatment then scale and plane the whole mouth is the best way. I guess that's why they won't do quadrants on me. It can be refractory to treatment so may have to be done again with different antibiotics. I wish I had regular gum disease! Can't help but think my loose tooth will just fall out tomorrow.

Good night.

Having seen the x-ray and looking carefully at my loose tooth, I'm amazed it's still hanging on in there, and it does make me nervous TBH. I have a big special trip coming up next year and I dream it falling out when I want to look and feel my best.

Well girls I'm half way through my treatment and it's been absolutely fine so far. Didn't feel any injections. The wonders of modern dentistry! The hygienist is amazing, very knowledgable. She's advised me to use perio brushes, not the regular interdentals, and there's a particular method she's shown me to do once a day, no more than that. I feel in very safe hands. I'm queuing in Boots to get my antibiotic prescription and then I'm back to do the other side of my mouth.

I'm still not convinced I'll save all my teeth (when she looked in my mouth she said I had lovely teeth - SOB!) but I'm feeling happier to know I'm getting rid of this horrendous bacteria.

Roussette- she showed me a gum veneer that she says a lot of her clients use to disguise the gaps. You can eat with it, she said it's brill. Nickname - I'm guessing you may have less gum recession with your treatment x

MissyMop123 - ooh thanks for checking back in and letting us know! I am so pleased for you that it isn't so painful! And that you're able to pop to Boots without feeling rubbish halfway through. Oh I so hope you get to keep your teeth

How did the veneer look? Think it'd be realistic? I was warned that I might have ugly recession. Arg!

(I am looking up that Perio Peak right now! Interesting about Vitamin D!)

rousette - what a scary dream. I'm sure you won't lose them like that. Which tooth is it?

Anaesthetic almost completely worn off the side of my mouth that was worked on. I've taken a couple of ibuprofen but there's no pain, just a bit tender around one injection site but I imagine I'll be able to eat ok on that side later on.

Well the gum veneer looked a bit wierd :-). I can't imagine that it stays in your mouth and you can eat with it etc but my new hygienist friend said her clients were really happy with them.

Girls, I'll be so pleased when this phase of my life is over and I can move forward, with or without false teeth.

I'all see if I can post a link to the veneer a bit later.

Sorry, I can't find a link but if you google gingival veneer mask you'll get the idea. It was very soft. I can imagine you could probably get used to it in your mouth.

I keep checking my teeth for big gaps but none yet :-). May take a few weeks!

Nickname it's bottom front my tooth. I knew from a young age it would be a problem, it's overcrowded and never been right.

Missy glad your treatment went OK. Have to say... any treatment I've had has never stopped me from eating. I get over injections pretty quick and tenderness hangs around but I can still cope because I've had far far worse in the past with abscesses, root canal, implants etc, so a preventative deep clean is a doddle. Well... sort of

*Rousette - when you go back to your perio do you keep having further treatments on pockets that aren't reducing? Today I was told about some kind of granuals they can put in the pocket and also the perio chip. So there's a couple of different things they can try on difficult pockets before suggesting surgery.

Feeling fine now - it's about 11pm. My tooth that's hanging by a thread may have something called a root-ectomy. It's a wisdom tooth. They remove one of the roots and then root canal it into the miserable bit of bone that's left. This idea would normally have me running for the hills but I feel totally fine with it. I can't quite believe they can do this sort of thing. I'll probably end up having one extraction on a back molar but we'll see if the tooth firms up after treatment.

I think these people will become my new best friends.

By the way, my hygienist said the best vitamins to take are A, C, E combined. I think I've seen ACE vitamins in the shops.

when you go back to your perio do you keep having further treatments on pockets that aren't reducing?

More or less yes. They will do the whole mouth but concentrate on an area that is a problem. I am going every 3 months or thereabouts (can't afford more!) but hopefully that will get less. But it is like painting the Forth Bridge... I can't imagine ever getting to the end!

I have got bridges and 2 implants but unfortunately I've had something that hasn't happened to my implant Dentist in the 10 years he has done hundreds of successful implants... I've had an implant fail. I love my implants so I'm gutted. He's so incredulous this has happened that he's sent it back to the manufacturers and it's been extracted I am now in the stage of waiting for it all to heal and the bone to grow back round to assess if I can have another one (I'd like to think it was free given the other one 'failed' but I had had it 7 years so not sure...) I just started getting pain around it and I knew it wasn't right and then it became a bit loose...

Glad to hear your pain wasn't so bad Missy. It's fantastic what they can do isn't it...

I remember about 20 years ago when I'd had an infection and I went to my lovely dentist (who has since retired) and I asked her what more I could do for my teeth. She said 'deep pockets - that's what you'll need'. She didn't mean the deep pockets in the gums, she meant the dosh and she ain't wrong there!

That is a bummer about the implant Roussette. I know there's always the chance of them failing but it doesn't make it easier when it happens to you. It sounds as though you are making a huge investment in your teeth and I guess I will be as well over the years.

Are you having some kind of bone graft to get the bone around the implant site to grow again? Did they do that when they extracted the implant?

LOL about the Forth Bridge!

Yes, twas a bit of a bummer because I've never had one bit of trouble in all these years. No bone graft needed, the bone around my teeth has receeded enormously but it can still take an implant. However, it needs to grow back and he seems to think it will all grow again and 6 months after it came out, I can start all over again... he's going to look at it in Feb so I shall find out!

However, it is 3rd molar back and doesn't show so it's not something I am rushing into, it causes me no problems not having it there so I suppose it's just a cosmetic thing for me really...

I would love good teeth! (as do all of us on this thread most likely)

Hello I have read your thread and it has helped me enormously as I have some bone loss on my lower front gum. I was referred to the hospital as my dentist found a lump in my gum. The dentist at the hospital wasn't concerned about it but has asked my dentist to refer me for some bone loss.

I am so upset. I have been avoiding looking in the mirror at my teeth but I did tonight and it looks really bad to me i.e my teeth look really long. The dentist said my teeth are slightly mobile. I can't stop worrying.

I hope my dentist has referred me.

Sorry for posting.