Periodontal disease... Stage 4. Anyone able to recover from this?!

[Nickname1980]

Just that really. As I've posted on a couple of other threads, my periodontal disease is pretty bad. And I am getting a tooth extracted next week. And have the four quadrant cleanings booked with antibiotic injections.

Are my teeth screwed always?! Anyone recover from it?!

The dentist said they'll look ugly after as the gum shrinks and I'll get the "black triangles". I used to have a good smile! I'm totally gutted.

I didn't see this coming at all! Have been busy producing kids though. I'm so diligent at cleaning my teeth. Dentist reckoned it could be genetic.

Nickname I've been through this and I'll try not to bore you with my story!

In a nutshell, I have not good teeth/gums. I have a couple of implants and bridges and have been referred to a specialist Periodontist. This guy is the best in the region apparently. It's cost me a fortune but I think it's worth it.

When he assessed me and my gums I was if you like 80% bleeding, i.e. when they poke the gums this is what happened. (Not sure of the technical details, they give me loads to read but I didn't read it in detail, I just put myself in his hands!) I had one side of my teeth done on a 2.5 hour appointment, with so many injections I can't remember, and the deepest clean possible. Then 2 weeks later the other side. Yes it hurt, won't pretend otherwise.

Since then I spend soooo long on my teeth as I won't spend all that money and not keep it up. Brushes for every crevice etc! I have been back for my assessment and my bleeding is down to 30% and they're very pleased. The aim is 20% or less and that's what I'm going for.

The whole process will have been a year by the time I get my next assessment so it does mean that things are reversible so do have hope!

Every time I attend, they put me through my cleaning routine, they spend half an hour on that. One thing they have stressed again and again - mouthwash - any sort - do not use it. For people with gum problems it does not help, but it exacerbates it.

Good luck with it all OP

farfarawayfromhome - I have had bleeding gums, but usually only in pregnancy. My only visible symptom was really bad toothache! I booked an emergency appointment with a private dentist as I thought my filling had fallen out. I expected a drill and a new one and that's that! But my actual teeth are fine, my gums are another matter.

dirtywindows - I hope they've improved it for you!! How do the gaps look? I am so scared of having ugly teeth as well as really unhealthy gums. My smile is very big and wide!

FeralBeryl - woah that sounds good. Did you also have the deep cleaning? I have a deep clean (first quadrant) and a tooth extraction appointment on Tuesday. I really want to do something before Christmas as my one tooth (the one they want to remove) is in so much pain. But I want to go and see someone who is a total expert eventually! Who offered you that treatment? Was it a dental hospital? Private or NHS?

ICJump - that's so reassuring to hear! Good luck, I hope you manage to keep this dreaded gum disease at bay!

Footle - I will research. I've heard we're all a bit low on vit D anyway, so it can't do any harm!

BillStickersIsInnocent - that's so good that you got something to cover the black triangles. I am finding all aspects of this so depressing. And the fact that I might feel afraid to smile is just... awful.

Roussette - that's so great that you got the bleeding down! Which region are you in? If it's london do you mind sharing the guy? (Just let me know and I'll PM you.)

I have my first deep cleaning plus an extraction on Tuesday. I'm dreading the pain but so frightened that I'm just totally submitting to it! Really want to be able to save this tooth though. I can't believe I'm going to lose it.

Gosh that's so interesting to know about mouthwash. I've been using it obsessively over the last week. I hope I haven't made things worse!(though they're so bad, not sure they could get loads worse!)

Hi Nickname... no sorry it's not London, wish I could have passed him on, he has a very good name in the business.

The deep cleaning isn't that bad really. They just kept topping me up with injections. The first time I wasn't 100% and a bit tired so I found it worse. The second time was absolutely fine because I knew what to expect. The pain management of it is superb and you will have lots of injections so you don't actually feel anything but I'm much older than you, and I think it just was a procedure that was a bit exhausting!

I'm only going by what this periodontist said about mouthwash, a weeks use for you won't make any difference I'm sure. They were a bit evangelical about it but I did wonder if it's because people use mouthwash as a cleaning method and that's why they were so firm about not using it. The key to it all is interdental brushes of every size.

Hope it all goes OK!

Mouthwash is almost always pretty useless. Ask for advice tho. It's useful in some cases.

I had a tooth out last week and I was dreading the pain but it was actually ok (I've had bad experiences so I was dreading it) a surprising side effect was that I have had more energy since it went. An abscess was the trigger for the removal (along with the tooth being bad) I think it was a low grade infection I'd been fighting

Yes agree MrsM like corsodyl but prolonged use of that colours your teeth!

Agree though, you should take advice because my periodontist might not necessarily be right!

I got very bad gums back when my hands first got bad and couldn't hold a toothbrush properly, as well as the stress. So got recommended Corsodyl and told I needed antibiotic injections - and had a phobia of mouth injections. And the dentist couldn't do it on the NHS. Now-DP thwapped me with the money (a month's rent for me) and got me there. Got dentist to agree to do it all in one go.

20 injections later it was mostly fixed - had a couple more injections later and sometimes I need 3-monthly checkups and cleans - I still can't use interdental brushes or floss. Teeth doing well 15 years on, and gums don't look like they're receding any more.

Gaps don't look great to me but DH says they're not really noticeable. Periodontist started talking about filling them but to be honest j found the treatments so traumatic that I never listened and always left in tears after each clean - they do a quarter mouth at a time. I'm sure you won't find it as bad OP. I'm a big girls blouse at the dentist! I'm sure he'll tell me again when I see him next. It's the sensitivity that's worse for me - painful to eat lots of things now.... been given high dose prescription fluoride to rub on them daily - have only slightly improved.... I'm going to ask about that gel and vit d when I see him next month...

I think you should see a periodontist and get a specialist opinion, there's one in Buckhurst Hill which is on the central line if that's any use who has treated a friend...

Thanks everyone. My dentist has been giving my gums 3 or 4 at check ups and keeps telling me to floss. I usually do it daily a week or so before it reduces to every few days. Last time she recommended interdental brushes but I bought them and haven't used them until now. Because of this thread I'm going to take a bit more care and try to get a better score in April.

I agree dona. I've had teeth out as a result of abcesses, infections, failed root canal you name it, I've had it. One infection I had looked like I had a golf ball stuck in my mouth! And OMG an infection in a tooth/gum can lay you low like nothing else. The relief, if a tooth is removed to alleviate something when there's no going back, is instantaneous. Take comfort in that OP.

Green I'm on to my kids (young adults) to use brushes and have wrapped some up for under the tree for all of them! won't they be delighteed

I just wish I started earlier. I've always cleaned my teeth carefully and used floss when I can be bothered but never used brushes until going to a periodontist when it was almost too late.

My husband has terrible teeth and he's always taken better care of them than me. I suspect it's bad/good luck. He had a badly receding gum at the front and the tooth was wobbly. He was referred to a specialist periodontist who did a deep clean under local anaesthetic and gave him a hard core cleaning routine. He followed that for a while. Then a couple of months ago he had a gum graft (tissue taken from the roof of his mouth). He found the roof of his mouth very painful (worse than he expected) for 2 weeks afterwards but it's healing well and so far seems to have been successful. He's been told the wobbly tooth will probably also need to be splinted to the tooth next door. It's all very expensive and if it doesn't work he'll need an implant (or a bridge which he doesn't want).

He went here and was treated by Dr Jagdev: www.mvdentalgroup.co.uk

It is depressing - I found it all distressing and painful and embarrassing. It's crap luck - my husband smokes and doesn't particularly look after his teeth and has perfect teeth and gums. Just the luck of the draw. At my last appt my dentist said gum disease is about 50/50 in the poplulation, obviously expedited by hygiene/pregnancy/smoking/other factors.

Look after yourself, it's horrid to feel worried about smiling and dentists never like to hear that. You may also want to see your GP for access to mental health support.

Take it one step at a time

I was told years ago that it is a mixture of all sort of things as to why my teeth/gum are not good.

1. hereditary
2. bad dentistry as a child (seriously... he should be locked up .. but I'm old and in those days dentists could get away with anything. None of my adult kids have even got a filing, I had a mouthful by the time I was 10)
3. gum disease which you can apparently catch by kissing??! My DH has gum disease so I blame him!

My best friend honestly has the most beautiful teeth imaginable, I clean, floss and brush more than her and it's not fair!

I agree Rousette, my gums were bleeding at age 12. Bloody dentist repeatedly said no problem - it was because I was brushing too hard. My parents trusted him so never sought a second opinion. I was a child so didn't know any better.
He also removed a healthy upper molar for no apparent reason.

Roussette - good to know the deep cleaning isn't so bad! I'm a bit of a wimp and a bit scared of it. And I keep googling what my teeth will look like after with the deep roots showing and it's kind of horrifying me!

Good to know about mouthwash too. I used to use interdental brushes but then I stopped about 5-7 years ago as a dentist told me they were making the gaps between my teeth worse!

You can catch gum disease by kissing?! I'd love to blame it on some rubbish boy from when I was younger 😂

NotCitrus - I'm so glad it's improved for you! And that you've kept it up for 15 years! I like the idea of doing all the quadrants at once. I have a 7 week old baby and two older DC and no childcare. So it would be easier for DH to just take the day off and for me to do it in one go. Plus I don't like being away from my baby too much, doing it at once almost feels like "there, it's done..." but my dentist only has an hour and 15 for the extraction and first cleaning appointment set aside.

dirtywindows - I'm a total wimp with my teeth too! I can't stand going to the dentist! It hate the injections as well.

Chippednailvarnishing - ooh please do share the name! Shall I pm you?

GreenFirefly - do it. Honestly this news was totally horrifying. I'm devastated by it!

HopperBusTicket - your poor husband! Arg that sounds so painful. I hope the graft and splint work. The idea of losing a tooth is just so scary.

BillStickersIsInnocent - thank you. I have to admit, I feel pretty down about it. I am just gutted. I had a really traumatic birth just 7 weeks ago too, was just starting to come to terms with that- and now this. Feels like my body is just being beaten up at the moment. I know it could be worse. For me - apparently - it's genetic. And probably made worse by having children.

Hi Girls,

I have advanced aggressive periodontitis. I found out about 6 weeks ago. I passed out in the dentist's chair when he told me how much bone I've lost. It's a long story but I've been seeing an NHS dentist for the last decade and was diagnosed with gum disease a long time ago but thought we were keeping on top of it. I can't quite believe it's come to this.

Anyway. My upper jaw is the worst, the bottom jaw not too bad apart from 2 molars. Pockets are 0 to 10 in the upper jaw. 10's are in the molars but I have a couple of big readings on a couple of front teeth.

For the first couple of weeks after diagnosis I could barely function. I was having anxiety attacks (never had these before in my life) and felt absolutely miserable. I could barely get out of bed. Over the last 6 weeks I've lost just under a stone in weight.

I'm trying to be more pragmatic about it now but it's hard. I'm constantly worried, constantly thinking about teeth, constantly wondering when the first tooth will have to be extracted. Will I get used to a partial denture because I have very little bone for implants? How long will it take until I lose all of them? I feel as though I'm just getting through the day, working and sorting out my kids but my anxiety levels are constantly spiking.

I've self referred to a periodontist and I'm having my first deep clean next week. I have hopes that the lower numbered pockets will reduce but the I'm not holding out too much hope for some of the back teeth. He's said we can repeat it if needs be. He said I'll be taking a lot of antibiotics before the clean and said if we can get the numbers in the bigger pockets down to 6 he'll be happy. He tried to reassure me that he doesn't send many people for gum surgery - he's a good guy! I think I'm willing to go for surgery though if push comes to shove, even though it scares me.

I wish my dentist would have said years ago that I should see a periodontist. Even if he couldn't refer me on the NHS surely he should have said something? This will cost me a fortune over the years but I'm willing to pay. I'm lucky in that I run a small business and I know that increasing my hours a little each week will cover the costs.

One of the worst things is googling! The links to diseases keep swirling in my head. I'm a really healthy person (well apart from the gum disease :-) ), and I feel I've become obsessed with risk factors, vitamins, inflammation and I'm now I'm constantly thinking how I've shaved 14 years off my life, how I could have an early heart attack or stroke or cancer.

I've gone through the thread that SkyMonkey started a few years ago and that's been helpful. I wish she was still on here to tell us how she's getting on now. It would be nice to know there's some hope.

My husband has been fantastic about all of this though and I count my lucky stars I have him and the kids. He's never seen me so low and he's been 100% supportive, even making me appointments with the periodontist because he knows I'll sit, think too much and panic. I'm not sure what I'd do without him. He keeps telling me I need to think of this as a problem I can solve but I'm a woman and I can't!

Anyway, when I think of the friends who have had cancer this year I think I need to get a grip. When I think of the dreadful, heartbreaking things that are happening in Syrai I know I need to GET A GRIP.

But to all of us who are on this thread and are sufferers - it's good to know that I'm not the only one because that's how it feels. I really wish a friend would cough and a couple of false teeth would fly out of their mouth. It would make me feel so much better.

MissyMop, what on earth do you mean, 'I'm a woman and I can't ..solve a problem ' ?
Can you see another periodontist for a second opinion, before you get quite so terrified ?

A year ago some of my pockets were 7s. I've got 30-70% bone loss in various places, had recurrent abscesses and one of the molars looked like its days were numbered.

I gave up smoking last New Year, had a deep clean which had to be repeated on the worst-affected quadrant a couple of months later. I've been using the interdental brushes, religiously at first and now not as often as I should. I've been using corsodyl toothpaste, which the dentist recommended. Now the pockets are down to 0s and 1s, the 70% bone loss tooth is stable and I've been put back on 6 month check ups.

The deep clean made the gums recede more visibly, which has caused horrible bubbles when I talk, so my main motivation was to avoid having to have that again.

ASqueakingInTheShrubbery. - well done for getting your pockets down to 0s and 1s! You say you've got bubbles when you talk... but do your teeth look ok?

I'm so scared of having horrible looking teeth on top of it all!

MissyMop123 - oh poor you! I know exactly how you feel with the anxiety etc.

I have been doing the same "it could be worse..." thing but reminding myself that I'm allowed to still feel bad and afraid of this gum disease

I really hope your first clean does some good! I have mine next week too. And a tooth extraction. A little worried that I'm not going to a specialist peridontalist for it, but my dentist. I might try and get a specialist peridontalist appointment on Monday privately. Like you, it'll cost me a fortune that I don't really have but am willing to spend.

Please do pop back and let us know how your first treatment goes!!

Nickname1980 - I think we have our deep cleans on the same day, Tuesday? So I will be thinking of you as I have it done. I'm loading an audio book on my phone in the hope I can listen to it via headphones. I'm not sure what to expect with the noise of the sonic scaler though. I keep thinking it'll sound like a road drill :-).

I'm having my whole mouth deep cleaned in one go. I was originally booked in with the perio to do it, but I had to change appointments and I'm now with the hygienist. I'm happy about that. I've been assured she's very good and she's spent the last 2 decades working alongside perios.

My treatment is costing just under £700. That's for the deep clean, recall to see the hygienist in a few weeks then an appointment with the perio to see how successful it's been. Normally it's around £1300 but I've been told my oral hygiene is really good so they probably won't need to recall me to keep checking on that (although they said I'll be reviewed when the time comes). The perio showed me some adjustments to make with the interdental brushes, checked on which toothbrush I was using etc but said my mouth was really clean. I can pat myself on the back for that I guess.

Nickname, I have one tooth that's literally hanging on by a thread. It's a wisdom tooth at the back. My perio was so laid back about it. He said, 'We're going to try to keep hold of that for as long as we can'. So yes, if you can get an appointment to see a perio I would do it. What a dentist tends to think is hopeless tooth and what a perio tends to think is a hopeless tooth are two different things. Obviously I don't know the circumstances of your tooth that's going to be extracted but it's definately worth a punt.

I have to say I was a hot mess when I went for my appointment with the perio but I felt a lot better when I left. He kept telling me I have lots of bone around a lot of my teeth (there are places where I don't though!). He also said with this kind of thing there's often a genetic link which made me feel a bit better. They don't know an awful lot about aggressive periondontitis as a whole though.

Unfortunately since then I've had a consultation with a clinic that specialises in laser treatment and it just spiralled my anxiety right back up. Lots of talk about bite adjustment, bad orthodontic work as a teenager, extraction of all my wisdom teeth... they showed me one of my pockets under a microscope and that image will live with me until my dying day... it was too much to take on board with my current delicate frame of mind!

The thing I like about the place I'm going to get my deep clean done is they have specialists in every area. Implants, prosthetics (gearing up for the partial!), perios, regular dentists etc etc so they can just refer me to the relevant person if and when I need them. I have confidence in them as well and I think that's a really key thing isn't it?

It's heartwarming to read people's success stories on this thread so thank you for those who've posted.

I know I sound like a complete fruitloop but honestly I'm not in general. My friends think I'm one of the most grounded people they know. It's just that there's something so invested in teeth isn't there? I thought I would have mine for the rest of my life, I never thought otherwise. It's just been such a massive shock. Hopefully, after my deep clean on Tuesday I will start to feel a bit better. Sometimes the waiting is the worst.

Nickname, I will post over the next few days to see how you've got on x

I hope I'm allowed to post this. I'm quite new on here so I'm not sure about the rules. Last night I was looking for cosmetic treatments to help disguise the gaps and black triangles and I found this (go to the bottom of the page): www.purelyperio.co.uk/cosmetic-dentist.html

I thought it looked really good. I'm sure it's not cheap to have done but there are obviously treatments to help people look more aesthetically pleasing out there.