Abortion rate highest ever - I'm sorry I just don't buy the reason suggested for this...

[CountessDracula]

"But pregnancy advice groups said the figures probably reflected poor access to contraceptive services"

What utter tosh

You can buy condoms in many loos in clubs and pubs. In any chemist or 24hour shop.

You have access to family planning clinics and doctors with free contraception

You can buy the morning after pill over the counter ffs

Shouldn't people take a bit more responsibility and get themselves to these places and get some bloody contraception?

But would you think she had the right to? Given that she's killing someone who has just as much of a right as she does to live?

Understanding isn't the same as acknowleging a right. I can understand why some people kill their spouses, but I wouldn't argue that they have a moral right to do so.

Its the same as self defence

am leaving this thread, again, because as fio has said, it is just going round in circles

there have been some excellent, thought provoking posts on here, but enough is enough .

OK I can understand the self-defence analogy.

But Paula it isn't...if the law was changed into giving the fetus rights then indeed a doctor could claim that in their high and mighty opinion your choice of Birth would indeed infringe the right of life of the unborn fetus...therefore then they had the right to make you have a C-section...even if not necessarily....all then depends on how well a person can put their case forward really...because those judging then would not have the medical knowledge needed to really make this judgement...

'Depression rarely results in Suicide. You are talking about really extreme cases here.'

Rarely?!

Try 20%!

Depression destroyed my first marriage.

Depression has made a ruin out of the past 3 years of my life.

Depression haunts my future before I've even come to it.

Depression plagues my present, which is an endless swing and roundabout from hell interspersed with appointments with consultants and the rollercoaster of medication.

You have NO concept of what this disease does to people and those who love them.

It's better than death to you, but believe you me, when it's got you in your grips your perspective becomes skewed to say the least.

And one thing it's given me is the most certain knowledge that death is quite often the greatest blessing we're given in this life.

I don't think thats a good enough reason not give give a baby legal status. I don't see how it would make a diffrence to the type of birth you choose.

Expat I am truly sorry that you have had a hard time. As I said I have seen first hand what it can do to people. I'm not in any way saying its not an awful problem. I still think that taking a life is worse than dealing with the potential for depression.

3andnomore is right, that's already happened in the States (although the outrageously misogynistic rulings of lower courts have always been overturned by the Supreme Court, it's usually after the fact, ie after the doctors have forced a woman into a caesarean she didn't want or need). Read Policing Pregnancy by Sheena Meredith - can't recommend that book highly enough

Paula how owuld it not effect Birth....Doctors over here, so far can only say and bully and suggest to go for something or other, but as yet they can't actually make us, unless they have us sectioned....so, as soon if we give right of life to the fetus pre Birth, than indeed they could also use this as a perfectly valid reason to make us have whatever Birth they may think is the right one....
this could mean tha a woman could be made to have a Hospital Birth instead of a Homebirth, or have a C-section instead of a Vaginal Birth or indeed it would mean they could decide that indeed a woman hasn't got the right to choose the C-section, no matter what history, over a vaginal Birth....definately NOT a path I would like to go down.
So, as much as I personally don't like Abortions, and certaily late ones, etc...I would NOT give away the right we have.
But yeah, hopefully those women that are unresponsible about contraception will get more responsible, etc....one day....

Well, you know, paula, I'm really glad you feel that about depression, or 'potential for depression' as you put it, b/c I wouldn't wish this black hole on many save Ian Huntly types.

I remember my ex bf, who's struggled with bipolar disorder for years, and is a successful surgeon despite it, getting in touch with me after I had DD1.

And I finally opened up to him about what happened.

And his voice on the phone. The first thing he said, 'I'm so sorry you got sent to that place. I wouldn't wish that on anyone I love.'

To think that someone who didn't even KNOW me could interfere in a decision SO personal makes my blood boil, quite frankly.

My body is one of the only things I have to control.

To strip that away from a woman is to enslave her.

Is anyone going to engage with my point that early abortion is the best moral outcome.

If what your talking about is the minimising of suffering for both parties then it is.

Lets try to talk facts not opinions

You're preaching to the choir here, MT, but I'll happily take a seat and see who steps up to the pulpit.

'aleulia

Aw, I just heard Jeff Buckley, 'Hallelujah'.

Never fails to bring a tear to my eye.

End hijack

I'm in that choir.

3andnomoreShe is a horrible person, with a very dark soul. She is alone now, after numourous b/f's and 3 husbands.

I just think the combination of not wanting me, the cleft lip & the fact that she may have caused it just totally wrote me off for her. Had I been born perfect, she could have come round to the idea of having a 4th.

That's life....

bump

(((((((sandcastle)))))) luckily we both know, and I am sure we are not the only ones, that a cleft lip/palate doesn't make you any less "perfect", eh!
It is difficult though if someone close can't deal with it....!

"I don't think thats a good enough reason not give give a baby legal status. I don't see how it would make a diffrence to the type of birth you choose."

Then you obviously haven't been paying attention Paula.

3Loveheartsandnomore post details some of the potential differences.

To say nothing of women being prosecuted for having a glass of wine or driving a car, or eating a piece of soft cheese, or whatever other preposterous restrictions the pregnancy police would like to impose on women.

I am somewhat confused by some of the things that Paula has said. The way I see it, 100% of the women seeking abortions are alive. If they do not have abortions, less than 100% of those pregnancies will result in a live baby. So how can a life and a potential life be equal?

There is a diffrence between killing something and it dying of natural causes.

I understand what you are saying about the right to choose your birth, so on and so forth, but I don't think protecting those rights warrents killing babies.

"I don't think protecting those rights warrents killing babies."

So in essence what you are saying is that those rights shouldn't be protected.

They should be protected. I don't think that you can say its ok to kill a baby because it could potentially effect other rights.