Abortion rate highest ever - I'm sorry I just don't buy the reason suggested for this...

[CountessDracula]

"But pregnancy advice groups said the figures probably reflected poor access to contraceptive services"

What utter tosh

You can buy condoms in many loos in clubs and pubs. In any chemist or 24hour shop.

You have access to family planning clinics and doctors with free contraception

You can buy the morning after pill over the counter ffs

Shouldn't people take a bit more responsibility and get themselves to these places and get some bloody contraception?

So a miscarriage at four weeks is exactly the same tragedy as the loss of, say, a four year old child?

well go and f*cking talk to a few adopted people then paula...go and do some research and then come back and tell us what you found out.

well go and f*cking talk to a few adopted people then paula...go and do some research and then come back and tell us what you found out.

caligula i am sure i personally could extoll the virtues of adoption with many a true life story and equally point out how many womens lives are marred and scarred by termination

i am not about to do that. we are talking about couples men and women taking responsibility for their sexual and reproductive health.

its obvious people are failing to do that effectively. I agree abortion (first trimester and second if essential) should be available to all

I do not believe in using it as an afterthought to contraception

Yes she was right to give him a chance. There are people who are with their birth parents ho sometimes wish they had never been born. Were they wrong to?

must not get so angry. must not get so angry.

paula. in seriousness you are entitled to your view of course. but do you know any adopted people? or mothers of children that have been adopted?

paula, on what do you base your view that Caligula's friend's experience is a minority one?

I wouldn't choose to go through an unwanted pregnancy and give the baby away because it would make the whole of the rest of my life a misery, frankly.

Brazil is a frightening example of the 'No Abortion' stance. Several thousand children are born each year in Brazil without homes. ie. Mum can't have an abortion but there are no loving homes for these children.

Where do you think they end up? The answer will make you cry.

My best friend in High School was adopted. She has never tried to seek her birth mother out although her parents have all the information. She is very happy. She has always thought that her birth mother did the right thing because she was on drugs and her life was a mess. She thought about her sometimes but K is one of the most well adjusted people I know.

Well, I do imagine that adopted children who go on to kill themselves because of it are in the minority tbh. But i still think it is utterly facile to suggest that having an unwanted baby and then 'giving it away' is a remotely happy or practical alternative to abortion.
And if a foetus is the same as a child, is a miscarriage at 4 weeks the same as losing a child of four?

Which just proves that abortion isn't always the right choice PPB

Just as having your baby adopted isn't.

Oops no, it's always the "right thing" isn't it.

absolutely aloha.

i have had an abortion. to be honest it hits me sideways sometimes...i think about the little girl i might have had (have very strong feeling that it was a girl).

i have no excuse for being pregnant...i knew how you make babies after all.

do i regret it...not one bit....do i think that that little girl would have been better off born to me aged 22, already split up from the father? absolutely not.

but frankly if i was a 16 year old being feckless..i defend her right to abortion too....

Banning abortion along with contraception in Romania also had terrifying social consequences which we all know about. Making women have babies they don't want is a recipe for disaster.

How about the Polish, Brazilian {insert Catholic nationality here) children who end up drugged and raped on paedophile sites?

Make no mistake, away from our fluffy UK shores, this is what happens to children who would have been better off aborted.

I am very very doubtful that you know the full story about what is going on for K and what is happening inside her.

can you imagine a circumstance in which you wouldn't want to know your birth mother? might that circumstance involve so much gratitude to your adoptive parents and the feeling that seeking her out, or in fact acknowledging any pain about this would be to be deeply disloyal to them?

I don't think I can say my miscarriages were as awful as I imagine me DD dying to be. But they were pretty awful. I loved those babies and wanted them very much. I may not have felt them move but I saw their little bodies and their heartbeats on scans. Yes it was awful.

My friend didn't seek out his BM either. She sought him.

I don't believe all adopted children end up totally screwed up either, though. Though I have to admit I do know a couple who have suffered through it....but then lots of people also have problems with our natural parents! It's a blooming minefield, this raising children lark.

true aloha.

all i have to go on is experience of clients in therapy....that basic wound of knowing that at a deep level you were given away is very very hard to work with....how can trust exist?

Her parents have always been very open to her finding out so I don't think thats it. Its true That I can't read K's thoughts but I have known her since our first day of Kindergarden. I remember when she was told (age 7) that she was adopted. I'm sure it must bother her a bit. It must be weird. All I'm saying is that she is a happy individual. She isn't suicidal, never turned to drugs.

but sophable - do you not wish you had prevented the pregnancy or sought emergency contraception?

Well then of course all the ones you know are unhappy or they wouldn't be there in the first place. The happy ones wouldn't need help.

yes notanotter. but i'm eternally grateful that abortion was an option open to me.

i have no excuse though...i am one of the lazy thick people! not thick...so lazy? not actually lazy? so what? feckless, irresponsible....or maybe just young and learning and not needing to spend a lifetime paying for my foolishness if i don't have to?

my dad is adopted. he is a pretty successful example...with deep wounds.

one of my best friends is adopted...she is not so successful....deeply troubled and unhappy...constantly seeking, never finding.

my husband's colleague adopted...absolutely scarred.