does 'the menopause' make you feel grotty?

[fishfacedcow]

i have decided to stop the HRT and just embrace the menopause. But since i stopped taking it i feel a low level grottiness.... you know like when you arent 100% and are coming down with something.

I just ache all over...sleeping at funny times...headachey.....get hot at bedtime but not sexy hot! pain like period pain/cramps

Bugger, sorry other way round, the benefit outweigh the risk.

Ime women who use hrt are especially evangelistic about it, probably because of needing to validate thier own choices, I guess that is understandable

What is this supposed to mean Glass?

What do you mean by 'validate their own choices'- is using HRT something to be ashamed of?

The most shocking things about some of the comments on this thread is how little some women know about HRT and the menopause- and I include in that the comment about 'risks being enormous', which is factually nonsense if you look at the stats. Drinking wine every day is a far bigger risk as is being overweight.

Yes okay, stats for life expectancy are averaged out and include childhood deaths/ infant mortality but that still doesn't change the fact that most women will live 1/3rd of their lives in an oestrogen-depleted state, with all the risks to bones, heart, brain, bowels that it includes.

What is this supposed to mean Glass?

it means exactly what is says, and calm down Polly ....no need to be so defensive

oestrogen-depleted state imo thats a loaded phrase which frames menopause as a deficiency disease, obviously you're entitled to your opinion on the matter but not everyone see's it like that.

Post menopuase (imo) is a phase of life when estrogen levels are lower than during the fertile years, our bodies are programmed to function best with reduced estrogen levels during this phase

I've been menopausal for over a decade, never once felt grotty.
I'm fortunate to only have had mild hot flashes and vaginal dryness but not having monthly sore breasts or periods is heavenly.
I have never given much thought to HRT.
Follow up with your physician's OP and if you have to discontinue the meds I hope you feel better soon.

I have been told by my gynae consultant that I can carry on with it forever

I for one did not know that Polly. I had thought HRT was only OK for a few years.

Glass I'm perfectly calm than you :)

The difference between your opinion and mine is that mine's not an opinion, it's based on facts.

Read some of the excellent material published by the International Menopause Society or indeed the British Menopause Society. This is the latest summary of HRT and it contains some very useful information on ever risk a women will have to her health after mid life and how HRT benefits ( or not) these.
www.imsociety.org/manage/images/pdf/5aa613a059b5d11934333ff0ecc0da26.pdf

I didn't like your use of validate because it's emotive; validate means 'defend' or 'prove' . For far too long women have been made- by some women- to feel HRT is 'unsafe' or 'unnatural' or even a 'vanity drug' when all they should do is put up with symptoms and be stoical, because menopause is 'natural'. Unfortunately these comments tend to be made by other women who have had no or few symptoms and who don't understand the longer term implications of loss of oestrogen on the skeleton or the heart.

Our bodies don't actually 'get used' to functioning without oestrogen, the hot flushes and sweats might go- these are short term symptoms- but longer and more serious issues can occur. The evidence shows that women using HRT are , overall, healthier in older age than women not on HRT.

No one can dismiss research such as the fact that women who start HRT within a few years of the menopause have 50% less arterial plaque than women who don't, which reduces the risk of strokes and heart attacks.

I'm not saying HRT is for everyone- some women manage fine without it. But lifestyle risks are actually riskier than HRT .

Last week the British Menopause Society held its annual conference and the chief aim of it is to help women and GPs be aware of the NICE report on menopause (Nov 15) and the re-think on HRT.

Our bodies don't actually 'get used' to functioning without oestrogen
Really?
We all need to be medicated post menopause?

HRT is not 'medication'. It's a natural hormone that is being put back to prevent some of the longer term illnesses of old age if taken medium-long term, as well as giving quality of life in the short term. It protects against dementia, bowel cancer, osteoporosis, heart disease, joint deterioration, prolapse,

suggest you read the link from the IMS. ......

I think other areas of our lives need nurturing during menopause.
Exercise and good diet are essential.
The only symptom I have had with menopause is no periods. It has been plain sailing.
But I have a very healthy diet, size 10, hit the gym 3 times a week and run with my teenage son.

This is just one paragraph from the link- page 13 I think .

"There is strong and consistent evidence that estrogen
therapy may be cardioprotective if started around the time of menopause(often referred to as the ‘window of opportunity’ or ’timing’ hypothesis)3 and may be
harmful if started more than 10 years after menopause
4
.
51+4 In the 13-year follow-up of women in the WHI,
the cumulative data in the 50–59-year-old age group
showed a reduction of coronary heart disease (CHD) (HR
0.65; 95% CI 0.44–0.96.) The risk of myocardial infarction
was also significantly decreased (HR 0.60; 95% CI
0.39–0.91)"

Pearly- what you wrote is true. But everyone is different. I am the same size as you, eat very healthily, don't drink at all, and do loads of exercise. But I had hot flushes and insomnia that made work and looking after teenage kids totally impossible.

In spirit of embracing facts, shall we remind folk that taking HRT raises risk of ovarian cancer?

and Breast cancer.

Because HRT isn't harmless.

Personally, I'll take HRT in a heartbeat if I think it keeps me sane. Sod the cancer risks. But others might want to handle their risks differently which is fair enough. They deserve to be informed.

The facts are actually more subtle than those you've linked to.
For example, that feature on the Cancer Research site is by Val Beral. Her work was funded by Cancer Research and her opinions and research - the Million Women study -was dismissed by other scientists as being 'unsound' or flawed. She is and always has been anti-HRT. Her views are well known.

The risks with ovarian cancer are debatable- there are studies which show some link, others don't. Ovarian cancer itself is actually quite rare so even with a possible link to HRT the risk is still tiny- far less than being knocked over by a bus or having a car accident.

The link with breast cancer appears to be only with synthetic progestogens. Some of us don't use these but use other types which other studies have shown to be 'breast neutral'. Most of the stats at the moment come from the old and outdated research using synthetic hormones. One study in France where natural progesterone was used on many thousands of women for 17 years showed no increase in breast cancer and a Danish study showed similar results.

It's really important to put the risks into perspective. When I've discussed risks with my consultant he says there are small risks using it and other risks (some bigger) not using it.

I think I've gone through the menopause, late 40s.

I do get aching joints, hot flushes, night sweats but it seems manageable and doesn't impact too much. I know my dm did hormone replacement.

For example, that feature on the Cancer Research site is by Val Beral. Her work was funded by Cancer Research and her opinions and research - the Million Women study -was dismissed by other scientists as being 'unsound' or flawed.
I'm more inclined to believe the findings of Cancer Research and professionals associated with this organisation than studies funded by HRT drug companies (and opinions from Drs being paid by them).

Would you like to link to these 'studies' being funded by drug companies? Are you saying that researchers like Nick Panay, one of the foremost gynaes and researchers in the UK and world on menopause is in fact being paid by drug companies to tilt their research in one direction? That's a pretty serious allegation. Or that organisations like the BMS and IMS , who review all the evidence , are in some way corrupt?

PollyPerkin you seem to have misunderstood my post and gone off on a tangent.
Will try to clarify for you, I said I'm more likely to believe Cancer Research than those with possible vested interests in promoting HRT.
this Guardian article looks at some of the disagreements between "experts".

Nope, not understood your post at all. Why is my post 'off on a tangent'? The consultant I quoted does a lot of research into HRT and was one of they key contributors to the latest NICE report on menopause.

I've read all the media features on HRT over the years and to be honest, they are not written by experts but by journalists who look at a bit of this and a bit of that and put a feature together (in order to sell papers and make a profit for the publishers.)

Big pharma is never going to get rich through peddling HRT. The profit from HRT is tiny compared to their profits from drugs for diabetes, heart disease, cancer, high blood pressure, Alzheimers, etc.

And even if pharma was providing some money for research I think you will find that almost every drug is funded in some way by a drug company. But this does not make the research 'weighted' or invalid.

Furthermore, Alco, you might find it helpful to read the comments by Prof Studd on This page where he highlights the flaws in the study conducted by Val Beral.

this Guardian article looks at some of the disagreements between "experts
interesting article Alco thanks for linking :)

Anecdotal, but the two friends I know who took HRT - one had breast cancer which doctors thought was definitely connected to the form of HRT she took and the other had an early heart attack - also linked to HRT which she then had to come off abruptly. Put me off.

You need to make up your mind by reading the science, Not, not basing it on 2 examples. I could say I know 2 women who got cancer and heart disease and never used HRT. Same difference!

Gobbin sorry I missed this part of your post...you're not up to date on HRT. The latest NICE guidelines say very clearly that there is to be no time limit / cut off point for HRT

My mum is 72. She was taken off HRT at 68, four years ago, not ten or more. So there clearly is a cutoff point, even if that is on an individual basis.

And your comeback about cancer, diabetes etc to my 'menopause is a natural process' is bollocks. Every woman that menustrates WILL go through the menopause at some point. It won't cause her to die. It is not a disease. I'm sure you can see the difference.

I just happen to think that a lot of women think 'menopause = HRT' as soon as the first flush or nightsweat starts, when it can be ridden out. We're all for the quick fix these days. Coming off HRT means going through the menopause symptoms. The difference being you might be coping with it at 68 like my mum!

Although the NICE guidelines don't give a time limit it doesn't mean that everyone should keep taking it indefinitely. There are lots of reasons why women might need to come off HRT.
My aunt was on HRT for six yrs till she got breast cancer at 61 and was told she had to stop.
She'd been feeling quite well so it was a shock to suddenly have to cope with severe menopause symptoms from the sudden withdrawal of oestrogen, she found this worse than the side effects of breast cancer treatment.

Haven't reached menopause yet but believe I'm in the peri-menopause zone. I'm about to go back to the doctors for what looks like yet another benign cyst. I am thinking of the bio -dentical hormone pathway. As discussed here: www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-3251354/Could-natural-HRT-transform-life-No-woman-facing-menopause-miss-natural-way-end-hot-flushes.html

Sorry I don't know how to insert links using my tablet!

I am not looking forward to the menopause. Sod it being natural, I intend to die trying to thwart it as much as possible! My formerly svelte mother has gained a belly she can't get rid of and still gets hot flushes 15 years later. No thanks. Think I'll pass if I can.