Vitimin D, can it have this effect?

[SistersofPercy]

We had a discussion over on AIBU last week about being pale and someone mentioned vitamin D if you don't get in the sun much. Now, I don't go out a great deal it has to be said and if I do I avoid sunlight.

I have Hypermobility and scoliosis so take 30/500 codeine, Diazepam and Nortryptilene daily for this. It's tended to leave me pretty lifeless as well as the painkillers affecting my bowels (TMI, apologies)

Anyway, just over a week ago I started to take vitamin D supplements. This week my bowels are as normal and regular as they were before the painkillers, my joints are a lot less clicky and I have double the energy. I've been in the garden all morning, pottering and moving plants around etc, something I've put off for the last 4 months because I didn't have the energy.

Whats going on here? Have I found something I was lacking with the Vit D or am I just having a good week lol

Just had my blood test results back, I started supplementing Vit D in May, am taking 10000 per day. Test result is 119 nmol/L, for serum Vit D.

I am a sun avoider, this is the end of the summer what summer? so my plan is to continue at the same level through the winter.

Happy with this result. Happier still with the improvement in my wellbeing from popping one pill a day. Thanks BTBH

RE K2, if you are a vegan (like me) you should probably be supplementing. The only natural vegan source is natto which is a) hard to source b) a somewhat acquired taste.

Lavenderain and Yddraigoldragon ,

  glad to hear you are feeling the effects of being replete in Vitamin D. 

It will most likely be many months until your body can repair itself, but in your cases, it has started to happen quite quickly.

 Try and get into -   "good nutrition" for yourself ,       it was not an accident , that the gov'ment  recently advised that 7  veg and fruit were better for you than 5 items.  Vitamin D  enables you to use that nutrition.

 To my mind , it is a very sad thing , that on these forums,  many, many people have entirely preventable health problems. The knowledge is there, but not widely distributed.    

In a few years time ( 2017- 2018 ) , the results of the VITAL and VIDAL studies will be released. These are double blind, placebo controlled studies of many thousands of people, which , HOPEFULLY , will be accepted as a definative statement about some of the benefits of Vitamin D.

   Just out of interest,   .....   there is a  cohort of participants ,  the  grassrootshealth  cohort,   about  7 thousand people,  who have raised their level of vitamin D , to  over 100 ,  by supplementation.   Their rate of develping diabetes has dropped to  about  one tenth of the common  "westerner" rate, in the USA.  Traditionally, this would not be considered as sufficient proof of an effect, because it was " self selected" ,  however, it is very interesting , to say the least. 

IF anyone has high blood sugar levels , pre-diabetes , etc , then it may be advisable to make sure your Vit D level are over the 100 range. Preferably 120 - 140 .

( That does not mean that type 1 diabetes can be reversed, however research into both insulin sensitivity and insulin resistance has shown that Vitamin D definately has some beneficial effects and may very well be helpful, particularly if you are at risk of developing Type 2 diabetes.)

BTBH

Thanks BTBH. Already type 2 but mostly diet controlled, low carbing and 5:2 and making sure I take my vits!

I was interested to read on the 5:2 forum about a possible link between MS and vit D, also a study of some American children where obesity and low Vit D seemed connected. It feels like lots of research is happening in this area.

This is a very interesting thread! I was vitamin D deficient after having chemotherapy for breast cancer when I was in my twenties. My levels were 40. I only realised I was deficient when someone from a cancer support group said I should get tested because I was so fatigued. I was given supplements to bring the levels back up, but no maintenance dose.

I'm currently pregnant, asked to be tested again, and my levels were 17. I'm also anaemic (no idea of levels, they didn't tell me the numbers). I've been on 1200 D3 per day for about two months - should I up that a bit? Also on calcium tablets. I'm 33 weeks pregnant.

Forgot to say, I'm due for a retest of vitamin D this month to check what my levels are.

Marking place. I'm going to read now. I've just found out I am deficient in vit d, I have been exhausted and achy for the best part of a year. I started tablets yesterday.

oldblood

Your current dose of Vit D ( 1200 IU ) is likely to raise your blood level by 30, if you respond as an average person. ( people are different, with different responses however )

  Being at 17 ,  in the summer,  was very low, it is great that you are now doing something about it.   You will see throughout this thread we are talking about raising our levels to about 100 plus. In order to do that you would need another extra 2500 IU  (roughly.) Your  Total  would then be 3500 -4000 IU.      Again I am assuming you respond in an average way.  

     Vitamin D researchers are showing great benefits to mother and baby at these higher levels.   Please look at the work of  Prof Hollis  and Prof Wagner,  Medical Univ. S.Carolina.     There is a talk by Prof Hollis , on the front page of the  Vitamindassociation   website. 

   It is thought that babies born to mothers that are replete in Vit D have less likelyhood of showing  MS, autism, schizophrenia and also other auto-immune diseses in later life. For you to be replete will be one of the best things you can do for your health, and your babies health.   Your risk of pre-eclampsia and many other pregnancy problems will be reduced.  ( see the work of Prof. Hollis ). If you take an extra 2000 IU daily  (  6000 IU  Total )  when you are breast feeding,  then your milk will have the right amount of Vit D for baby. Please see my earlier posts.  Have a good look around the  vitamindassociation   website.  

       That said,  you are under the care of your own medical professionals, you should discuss this with them, and let them know what you intend to do, they know all your circumstances. Hopefully they will be encouraging. 

Hope this helps.

BTBH

I got it wrong, it's actually 3200 daily that I'm on.

oldblood AHA ...... now that makes a big difference , your blood level is likely to be just below 100 , if your start was 17 , and you are taking 3200 IU daily. The thing to do , will be to see what your measurement is, if it is well below 100 , ( because everybody responds differently ) then possibly add say another 1000 to it . However it really does depend on your results. It takes about 3 months to reach an equilibrium, from a constant daily dose. If you are measuring after 2 months then it is likely to raise just a bit more , around 10% or so, in the final month, from your existing daily dose.

  Still,  have a look at the work by  Hollis and Wagner ,   it is very interesting ,  you will learn a lot about the benefits of Vitamin D in pregnancy and beyond. 

Don't forget the original and best way to get Vitamin D , is sunshine . Your body evolved to do it that way. There is some in food , but not much. If you can, a few minutes out in direct sun, without sunscreen will make lots of Vitamin D. Do not burn . At this time of year it has to be close to 1pm, before or after. After mid-October, you cannot make vitamin D in your skin , in the UK. The sunlight is too weak.

Good luck

BTBH

I take D3 and once I finish this box I'll be taking vit D3 with added k2.

I've found that whilst my mood is better I am feeling very constipated and bloated. I take 10,000 iu a day and when I had a week away without taking the tablets I noticed a huge dip in mood and energy.

can vit D3 cause constipation?

Anecdotal but we did a v small study at work and the number of people who were vit d deficient was high
However we selected smokers and those who stay inside a lot so not really a surprise
Am interested in the stories but I try to get a bit of sun when I can and eat fish and eggs so doubt am deficient

I have Me/cfs (and am obese in the last few years). I've ordered B12 and vit D sprays from holland and barrat and going to ring the VitD test line tomorrow.

I dont have money to waste but hte thread makes sense..... I@m getting a bit confused by numbers, and I'm aware its the "wrong" time to test but thougth I should before I get into using the spray!

Im sure my diet is shot too... Its carb heavy and I'm not too confident with food! And I get paranoid about which type of diet is healthy.... before returning to toast/pasta....

Is there a connection between smoking and low vitamin D levels?

My friend, who is housebound and a heavy smoker seems unable to raise her levels.

Ive ordered a testing kit. I assume its self explanatory. Ill come here for help with the results! Also ordered b12 and vit d spray from holland and Barratt.

Can i ise the spray for mykids or just the under 5? Wss the guidance sothey build it uo in their system... is it too late!?

cleanmachine . 10,000 is probably the amount that you would manufacture in your skin in 10 - 15 minutes sunbathing , in strong sunlight. Normally it would be the upper limit of what you would want to take on a daily basis. There is no reason, ( that I know of ) to suppose that that would cause bloating or constipation. In fact we would expect your digestion to improve.

However some people can be allergic or intolerant to the oil or filler in the tablets, possibly about 1 in 300 people. In this case, I would say it is possibly a good idea to change your method of delivery. You could try sublingual , which could be more easily assimilated for you. Or maybe change your brand from tablet, to gel cap or visa versa. See how you get on with that.

It would be remiss of me if I did not mention ( as I have in a previous post on this thread, ) if you have an extremely rare disease, sarcoidosis or granulomatosis, then you should not take vitamin D, and you probably should be on a low calcium diet. Also if you have carcinoma or are on chemotherapy: then in all these circumstances you must talk to your medical professional caregiver, before taking anything.

    If you have sarcoidosis , or  granulomatosis, then  excess vit D hormone could leak from your cells ,( in possibly 10% of these very rare  cases ) and raise your blood calcium.   High blood calcium  can lead to the following symptoms :
 Loss of appetite.
Nausea and vomiting.
Constipation and abdominal pain.
Increased thirst and frequent urination.
Fatigue, weakness, and muscle pain.
Changes in mental status, including confusion, disorientation, and difficulty thinking.
Headaches.
Depression.

These symptoms would develop over the long term, not just come and go over a week or so.

A separate issue : Overgrowth of the parathyroid gland tissue, can also result in excess blood calcium, whereby the PTH hormone is too high. Again, extremely rare. Nothing to do with Vit D supplementation.

IF you think you may fit this profile , then having a blood calcium test may be a good idea. However , it is very, very , very unlikely, to have anything to do with your current Vitamin D supplementation, but the information is there for you.

 Hope this helps 

BTBH

oh thank you so much. really useful info.

Half of that list is why I want to TRY vit D!!! You can't win can you...

I was diagnosed with ME/cfs but it seems everything has the same symptons.

kennington

Measure your blood levels in early April, just to see if you are low.

You cannot get much vitamin D from diet, unless you eat lots of wild caught oily fish every day. An egg contains only 40 IU. Over winter ( Nov -Mar ) you cannot make Vitamin D from sunlight, it is too weak, and contains no UVB.

It has been calculated that we need approx 70 IU per day , per kilogram of body weight, from sun, food and supplements. There are very few fortified foods in this country, but unfortunately not milk. If you check the fortification levels , they are almost insignificant when compared to your requirement. Any fortification is welcome, hopefully the likelyhood of rickets will diminish , but for other benefits of vitamin D you do need higher levels.

best of luck

BTBH

pleasemrsT

Yes, smoking does seem to be associated with reduced levels of VitD in the general population. Commonly two mechanisms have been put forward,

1. that smoking eliminates calcium, thus requiring the use of your VitD store to recharge your calcium level.
2. That any disease or injury process,which may be caused by smoking, will require use of your vitaminD store in order to repair that injury or fight that disease.

That being said, if you give enough vitamin d , to such a person , one would expect their blood level to increase, probably at a lower rate that an equivalent non-smoker. IF your friend has no increase then it may be that she is not taking nearly enough , OR has absorption problems with that particular method of dosing.

Here is a partial list of possible reasons why absorption may be limited.

Excess BMI,too rapid gut transit( try taking with large meal), low magnesium,smoking, ratio of mono to poly unsaturated fats too low, too much cola type drinks( reduces calcium), low K2,low boron, etc etc.
In addition gut maladies such coeliacs etc, fatty liver or other liver problems,excessive vitamin A, no gallbladder or reduced bile, genetics.

As you can see the list is long, and not complete ! The important thing is to raise her level if it is sub optimal. Overall, there can be a 6 fold variation in response to supplementation, across a population sample.

A high BMI may require 2 or 3 times the normal dose to get a response.

Has she had some response or no response to supplementation? IF no response , then I would change to sublingual, to see if that works.

Hope this is helpful

BTBH

Placemarking - I have just read this whole thread in one sitting, and my head is spinning. taking 25ug a day, have been for about a year, also taking Mg and CQ10 and need to order K2 and more B12. ME, osteo, Fibro sufferer.

I've done the blood test and posted it earlier this week.

I have me/CFS and its really debilitating. Trying not to hope this is a magic answer.

My b12 and vit d spray have arrived too!

futureme

  It sounds like you are going in the right direction ,   having a test will let you know where your body is in relation to vit d    Now ,i.e. towards the end of summer , your level is likely to be around its maximum. From mid october to mid April,  your level will drop ( unless you supplement ...or go on a sunny holiday...or use a sunbed. ) .   If you are aiming at a blood level of 100 plus,   then  for every 1000 IU  daily,  you can expect your blood level to rise by about 25. ( That is an average response of a 75 Kg adult )   Your blood test will give you an idea how much you need in order to do that.  You may need a bit more or a bit less, response is variable.  Have a look over this thread , I have mentioned it elsewhere.   You will probably need to adjust your dose , to compensate for the lack of UVB in sunlight over the winter months. i.e. perhaps add 1000 IU. 

Have a look at the vitamindassocociation website. The have a pretty good explanation of what young people should have in the way of supplementation. For under 5 I would stick with their recs, they prefer the American recs, so do I. A spray would probably be the easiest way to top up any age children, it tastes nice ! Don't forget their requirement depends upon their weight. A blood spot test around early April, will tell you how well they are doing.

 So sorry to hear that you have  ME/CFS ,    I do believe that having a "good" level of vitamin D may very well be beneficial to you ,  it  may take a few months for effects to become apparent,   I cannot promise a cure ,  but  if you bring your levels up to those found throughout  human evolution you will undoubtably be giving your body some of the tools to repair itself.  Try to get a good variety of minerals and vitamins in your diet. Essential nutrients are just that, essential,   if you miss out , you are hampering your own  bodies attempt to repair itself. 


        

Good luck 

        Let us know how you get on.

BTBH