Dear MNHQ why does this board exist?

[TalkinPeace]

Having the board encourages people to think that not vaccinating is a valid viewpoint.

Well there are risks to ff…particularly when people don't make up feeds correctly. (which many people don't because it's so much of a 'faff' apparently.)

"its because they do not understand science, statistics and how to read the statistics of risk."

Not entirely true. There are many doctors, HCP, scientists, staticians etc who make different decisions wrt vaccines. I don't think you can put everyone under the 'they just don't understand' umbrella.

Some feel that formula feeding causes risk to their bf babies in terms of using valuable and finite resources of the NHS and that some diseases have become more dangerous due to the reduced maternal immunity exposure you get from 'selfishly' choosing not to bf to term.

Many scientists and doctors do not vaccinate.

Many scientists and doctors do not vaccinate.
Evidence?
Proportion?

There are a number listed here, plus a good number of MN who have vaccine-damaged children are themselves scientists or medics. You'll also find them if you scroll through the MN archives. And, I'm a scientist.

MN posting is not evidence.
It is multiple anonymous anecdote.
The number of MN posters against the number of nurses, doctors and scientists in the UK and the world shows that MN posters are an unrepresentative miniscule minority.

The number of successful claims on the link up thread shows that either all the parents of vaccine damaged children post on MN, or their posts are inaccurate.

And please do not lump all scientists together.
Fluid dynamic modellers for boat hulls are not generally medically literate.

Actually it seems career suicide in the NHS to raise any concerns. The drs who have, mostly have had to go into private practice to continue a career working in the UK.

That probably skews it massively

How many Doctors have left the NHS because of not wishing to comply with Vaccination guidance?

Link please

The point of the formula feeding analogy is that is not politically acceptable to ban the discussion of formula feeding or to insist that everyone formula feed, despite the evidence pointing overwhelmingly to the fact that it would in fact save vastly more lives than the claims of all the vaccines put together. (Some great stats, links etc in the Armadillo link). People are free to ignore that scientific evidence and defend their right to feed their babies how they choose and more importantly talk freely about it without people shutting down communication channels.

I am not asking you to change your mind, I am simply asking you to allow people to discuss it.

My son recently asked why so many people took to the streets to defend the cartoonists of Charlie Hebdo. It wasn't because they necessarily agreed with the satirist and the offense they caused, it was in DEFENSE OF FREE SPEECH! Who said 'I may not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death, your right to say it!' ?

Documentary this evening on Channel 4 reveals 800 children suffer with narcolepsy as a result of swine flu vaccine. Wise to have concerns and take care.

www.channel4.com/programmes/the-kids-who-cant-stay-awake/videos/all/clip-2-the-kids-who-cant-stay-awake

tinalouise
Interesting that those 800 children have not shown up in the Government claim data.

anotherday
despite the evidence pointing overwhelmingly to the fact that it would in fact save vastly more lives than the claims of all the vaccines put together
Please explain to me how banning formula feeding would save millions of lives a year - which are the numbers saved by controlling infectious diseases

I have my smallpox vaccination scar on my arm. Do you REALLY think that formula milk is comparable to smallpox?

I was just going to suggest TalkinPeace get over to Channel 4 and stop that programme that raises the question of the possible link between swine flu and these cases of narcolepsy and raise the suggestion that their could be side effects from some vaccines.

The links don't show the number of vaccine damaged children. They show the number of those that have tried to claim compensation for it (lots of people don't want to) and then the amount won.

It's fuck all to do with Wakefield and autism

You are right OP, I don't think this section of the board is very helpful to parents at all. It's usually a haven for conspiracy theorists and the odd person who can be bothered ppatiently arguing with them.

Talk: do you not accept the right to free speech?

despite the evidence pointing overwhelmingly to the fact that it would in fact save vastly more lives than the claims of all the vaccines put together.

Where is this evidence?

TalkInpeace - perhaps those 800 children aren't considered 'severely disabled'?

Did the programne also point out that in 2009 and 2010 there was also a rise in narcoplexy in countries like china where they didnt use the flu vaccine or that after the h1n1 pandemic after during the first world war there was a sleeping sickness epidemic (remember Robin Williams film Awakenings)

TalkInPeace
I know why people hold such views : its because they do not understand science, statistics and how to read the statistics of risk.

Let's have some science to back up this claim. What is your source for this?

StarlightMcKenzee
Many scientists and doctors do not vaccinate.

TalkInPeace
Evidence?
Proportion?

Uptake rates for seasonal flu vaccination for frontline healthcare workers in England make interesting reading (so a vaccine that this group is 'encouraged to receive'). 45.6% of frontline healthcare workers elected to have the flu vaccine during the 2012 to 2013 flu season (1st September 2012 to 31st January 2013).

The uptake rate amongst doctors, including GPs, was 44.7%.

www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/245605/Seasonal_Influenza_Vaccine_Uptake_HCWs_2012_13.pdf

What are your thoughts on these rates, TalkinPeace, given the sector they apply to and your comments about vaccination and understanding of science, risk etc?

Talk, Let me just get this straight. Are you saying you 'don't believe in' vaccine damage', despite the evidence it happens?

What was particularly sad about the children featured in the Channel 4 programme was that although it was admitted they were vaccine damaged, it wasn't decreed to be at least 60% damaged so they got nothing. As one mother said, 60% damage was the equivalent of losing a hand, but someone can still drive with one hand, or hold down a job, and she didn't expect her daughter to be able to do either of those things.

Isn't this board to discuss anything to do with vaccinations? Eg vaccines that aren't part of the main NHS programme like chicken pox, men B etc?

And if people are worried about the swine flu vaccine and narcolepsy link, then this seems like an apt place to discuss it?

And while I'm firmly pro vaccination, I'm never anti debate.

what about the children who got nacoplepsy from h1n flu they will get nothing either. There was a 3 fold rise in china of nacolepsy cases at the same time. Only 6% of those children were vaccinated.

Yabu talking peace.

Vaccine damage is a subject that interests people.

Starlight makes many valid points.

I I think, talking peace, that if there were a "climate change sceptics" board I would be posting on it, not asking for it to go away.....