I have declined the HPV vaccine for my daughter - school nurse demands I give reasons why - is this legal?

[TimeIsAnIllusion]

I have declined the HPV vaccine for my daughter. Do I have to explain the reasons why on the form? I received a telephone call from the school nurse saying I must but I don't wish to explain myself. If the vaccine is offered I have a right to decline surely - so must I give a good enough reason to decline?

I don't know who the information will be passed on to and how my reasoning will be judged or considered. I just want to politely and quietly take the "no thanks" option without being pressed as to why.
By the way I my dd has had all other childhood vaccines but it's this particular one I'm not happy for her to have.

KatieKaye, gosh, if a reaction to a vaccine could be that severe then I think I'm quite justified in risking the disease rather than the vaccine.

"Hakluyt, every vaccine carries a risk."

Everything in life carries a risk. Have more people been seriously ill or died because of flu or the flu vaccine?

Are you talking about the flu vaccine or the HPV vaccine? The risk of a vaccine will depend on the person receiving it.

Anaphylactic reactions are known to be bi phasal and require at least overnight in a hospital - preferably 48h. Yes epi pens are useful to carry if you have severe allergies but as my children know - it's not ok to take risks and think oh well I have the adrenaline so I'll be ok. Even with adrenaline it's possible to die.

I have had a child react outside the window of time expected for a reaction to occur when doing a peanut challenge - so I'm not sure I would trust "waiting for a few hours" myself.

This is why I chose and think through my options carefully and they are based on family medical history not just on the individual child concerned. She has not had anaphylaxis herself - but had allergic response to viruses, to antibiotics, to pollens, to some random foods which we aren't sure of - not intolerance but actual allergy (swelling, hives/urticaria, vomiting, abdominal pains - in the case with some antibiotics sunburn rash and peeling skin).

I understand there are increased risks of allergic response for my child and that genetic predisposition exists. It may be that despite these statistics my child will still be ok with the vaccine - it's a gamble for me to chose correctly and I have to weigh up the benefits of the vaccine v the chances of any side effects of a vaccine.

As I see it a number of shall we call them "instances of bad luck" would have to align in order for my child to end up dying from cervical cancer at some stage.
Firstly unprotected sex - this I imagine is likely at some stage - then getting HPV - about 50/50 - then it to be one of the two particular strains associated with cervical cancer (much less than 50/50) - then for her as an individual to have her immune system respond in a paticular way to this variety of HPV (a less than 0.01% Chance) leading to it growing into cancerous cells - then she would also need to miss every offered smear test for it not to get picked up and dealt with in good time or for it to get picked up but not respond to treatment....which would result in death from cervical cancer. Overall a less than 1 in 10,000 chance.
I would estimate the chances of a person catching flu as a bit higher than "less than 1 in 10,000".

I myself take the flu jab annually. I can't have the pneumonia jab in future as I reacted very badly to that - my arm swelled to the point it was twice its usual size. I couldn't move it - it then went black and bruised all over the top half from shoulder to elbow it was weeks before the swelling went and over a month before the skin on the top half of my arm recovered (it flaked and peeled away in the last stages of healing like skin that's been badly sunburned). I know my risks of catching flu are high (I'm not a hermit) I know my risks of complications from flu are extremely high indeed - I have breathing problems with every virus I get. Therefore I do get the jab.
Just another example of how one cannot reliably predict the outcome of a vaccination. One can only make a choice by weighing up all factors involved and I don't think one should dismiss family medical history lightly.

I wonder do some people on this thread think should all vaccines be mandatory and forcibly given to all people or do they believe in choice? If you do believe in choice - is that only so long as you choose to have the vaccine?

Oh and no I don't think I could just quickly write one reason on the back of the form as to why I don't wish my child to have this vaccine, to explain everything would be to write a dissertation on the matter - so the best answer I can give is "for reasons of family medical history" to which I imagine the average school nurse will want to discuss (as there isn't any anaphylaxis on dd's medical record herself but she is at genetically increased risk of it). I don't wish to discuss or for people who aren't seeing the whole picture to try and persuade me of the benefits of this vaccine when I actually think many people think the vaccine offers "more protection against a bigger risk" than is true.
i am not saying the vaccine isn't beneficial at all - I'm not saying the risks are negligible either - though they're clearly not huge risks).

I'm saying I've weighed it up and rightly or wrongly made my choice for my child and perceive myself as doing my best for my child based on my many reasons.
I didn't want to explain as it's complicated, time consuming and means imparting a lot of info which I'm unsure of the privacy or data protection of. I don't know if it's the school, health authority, or pharma company etc or who else would read my detailed and full answer. It's hard to summarise into small points without being dismissed as not good enough answers for refusing a vaccine without the full picture being seen. Or maybe it's just me and poor powers of communication?

I so agree with all the above.

Family medical history is not simple. 13-year-old girls don't know their own. No doctor or nurse will ever listen for long enough to hear it, or take the time to read it.

hi again OP.

we have also been told if DD has a reaction, to give piriton for at least 24 hours after, preferably for 48 hours. I always though anaphylaxis was immediate and discovered that it isn't a few months ago. allergies are a really horrible thing to deal with and like you say, unfortunately the teams researching this are no closer to a solution or cure. The only thing we can do is avoid avoid avoid.

Some people think, it's fine to take risks because they have an epipen, but an epipen only buys you time before a medical team can reach you. or at least that's how I view them.

Good luck with the form, and thank you for your last post. It helps me feel slightly less alone, knowing there are other people out there that go through the same thought processes and have the same very real concerns.
xxx

apologies OP, I think I mis quoted you. I meant to agree with your statement that not all the facts of the after effects of vaccines, esp one as new as the HPV one, can possibly be know.

ALso, I meant to say ...

but an epipen, if it works at all, only buys you time before a medical team can reach you. or at least that's how I view them.

xxx

Newbiecrafter I'm glad to know this thread had helped you too ??
The girls were jabbed at school today and lily was not called through or even questioned o on the matter. Whether this was just because the staff were reasonable humans or because I wrote a slightly heavy handed "we do not wish our daughter to be vaccinated under duress at school" after "for family medical history reasons including anaphylaxis"... Or maybe they couldn't read my scrawl - I will never know. I didn't just leave it blank which after asking here and realising they can jab a12y old without parental consent I think it was best to write something. Thanks to everyone who contributed to this thread.

OP you just mentioned your DD by name I reported your post for you so Mumsnet can remove it but you may wish to do so to.

Glad she didn't get jabbed and feel for you with grilling some posters gave you, some people just really love an opportunity to feel important and right!

I refused the vaccine for dd1 a few years ago. They called and asked me why (at the time she was 9 - I posted on here about it) but weren't pushy. They just said we could have it done later if we changed our minds.

I think dd2 is due this year, or it may have been last year and we refused for her too (slightly older at 10). They do it earlier here.

I have also discovered yesterday that they are now vaccinating the boys at the same time.

I'm happy for the girls to discuss it with me around 14/ 15 and we can go over the studies now that it is an established vaccine, and is slowly being rolled out to include boys as well.

I also have had allergic reactions to vaccinations in the past, caused by the carrier, rather than the live ingredients. Getting the simple vaccines is virtually impossible.

I am content with my decisions. The school nurse was as well. There was no hounding, just a mild curiosity.

Which is a case from 1982 when a mum took the council to court for giving her daughter the pill without her knowledge

Actually the daughter wasn't given the pill, she had not even asked for it. Her mother wanted the Dr's to call her if in the future her daughter asked for it.

As for 12 year olds being competent to give consent, at 12 I didn't see why I had to have a rubella vaccine. Only girls had it because 'girls get pregnant', well I had no intention of becoming a mother. Here I am 30+ years later still with no intention of being a mother.

Cervical cancer rates are 9/100,000 and mortality has improved from 8 to 2/100,000 over the last 40 years with no vaccine. This has been mainly due to improving rates of Pap screening but it is still only 80% attended. It is still necessary even after vaccination.

SERIOUS adverse events during the vaccine manufacturers clinical trials were 2500/100,000. Post vaccination levels are similar.

My friend's daughter started having brain seizures after the HPV vaccine, so she cannot now at 17 learn to drive or be left alone. A young girl in our village whose mother used to help me also started having brain seizures after the vaccine. Another friend has a daughter who had kidney failure after the vaccine. All 'coincidences' their mums have been told. Needless to say my dd is not having it. I spent a lot of time googling adverse effects and reading articles on Pubmed. I wouldn't touch it with a barge pole personally. Mums research first, it is up to you

Just show her this.

Or better still this

Our teenagers ( under 16) can give the permission themselves- even without parental consent.

This is an old thread!!

Glad it turned out as you wanted but a little sad that you felt it best to give a reason. I don't think you should ever have to do so, despite LOVING health data and being proud in general of the fact that the UK can produce useful data on a lot of health issues. OF COURSE you should be able to refuse (or consent to) any treatment or intervention without a reason.

'In order for a HCP to assess whether someone has capacity they need to ask why the procedure is being refused.' No they don't.

Oh and Japan did not stop using Gardasil due to deaths.

I work in a head and neck cancer unit and have made an appointment so that I can pay for the vaccination for ds. I'm always grateful to these threads as it reminds me to actually do things like make the appointment, rather than talk about it

My friend's daughter started having brain seizures after the HPV vaccine, so she cannot now at 17 learn to drive or be left alone. A young girl in our village whose mother used to help me also started having brain seizures after the vaccine. Another friend has a daughter who had kidney failure after the vaccine. All 'coincidences' their mums have been told. Needless to say my dd is not having it. I spent a lot of time googling adverse effects and reading articles on Pubmed. I wouldn't touch it with a barge pole personally

I agree wholeheartedly. It frankly amazes me how willingly people allow themselves, and their children to be jabbed without doing their own research into exactly what is in these vaccines.

I shall be advising DD about the importance of safe sex and the importance of regular smear tests.

By brain seizures, do you mean epilepsy?

Hi, we're looking to speak to parents whose daughters have not received the HPV vaccination for a research study we are doing here at University College London (UCL).

If you would like to find out more about the study or get in touch please follow the link below.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/nonmember_requests/2548068-UCL-study-Tell-us-why-your-daughter-didn-t-get-the-HPV-vaccination

I say well done to those who question this vaccine. There is so much evidence to show it is neither safe nor effective. Ask your GP what action they would take if there were a vaccine injury ... Say a reaction to aluminium adjuvant or seizures? There is no protocol for vaccine injury. No detoxification. No belief. You are left stranded, terrified, and told it is all a 'timing coincidence' or in your daughter's head. Avoid this vaccine like the plague. It has been linked to ovarian dysfunction also.

I've just read this and am about to start a thread about it. I wish my two daughters had not had the vaccine. One was only a month ago