Declining 8 week vaccinations for my baby - experiences?

[Plasticpineapple]

I don't want this to be about whether you should or shouldn't vaccinate your baby. I have chosen not to and I'm looking for experiences from others who have done the same. What did you say? What did the doctor say? Did you discuss vaccination once the child was older or flat out decline all vaccines?

Wow. You got most more than most Elphaba. I don't know a single person who was asked about their family/sibling history or if they were planning to vaccinate. I know I wasn't

Also interested in what birth circumstances/easily care may contraindicate vaccines?

Early* care

of course they ask about family history etc

Maybe yours did.

Premature babies with ongoing things like respiratory issues, any blood transfusions/treatments in SCBU which may compromise immune status, mother who may be HIV positive and they need to be absolutely clear on the child's status before they proceed with any vaccinations. I can think of a number of situations where they would have plenty of warning that a child might not be 100% immunologically-speaking.

And I was asked about family and new baby's siblings' medical, health and allergy histories in both of the NHS trusts I had my children. Unless you chose to free-birth your babies on a canal barge, of course you were asked the same things, and at some length, from the booking-in appointment onwards. They're pro-forma questions in maternity notes across the UK

are you based in some kind of field, bumbleymummy? where dont you get months of antenatal and postnatal care that doesnt include family histories etc? what exactly bad reaction are you expecting the average baby to have to their 8 week jabs? what kind of percentage risk are you talking about here? the journey to the clinic is probably the most dangerous part!

I thought you were saying you were asked them when you rolled up to your vaccine appt.

Yes, of course they took some family history at booking-in appt but I don't recall being asked anything irt family history of allergic reactions or anything like that and I don't remember them asking anything about DS1 during my second and third pregnancies aside from how he was born and at what gestation. Are you saying that's when they're supposed to be collecting information that may contraindicate certain vaccines?

No, no free birthing in fields for me! :)

Sorry, signing off for the night. Sleep well :)

weird, i've always been asked, maybe you just didnt notice?
for example when having the flu vaccine recently we were asked if anyone in the family was immunosuppressed, as then the injection is better than the nasal spray
they have always asked about illnesses/immunosuppression before all my kids jabs

The population study Hakluyt linked to is enough for me. Considering the risk is quite literally smaller than crossing the road I am at a loss to understand how you manage to function in day to day life where you have a much greater risk of all sorts of things.

And my point re: identifying the babies is that with such a low incidence if severe reaction only a tiny proportion of those who test positive will actually have a reaction. The test would stop many children being vaccinated, these children would be at a greater risk of getting vaccine preventable diseases and passing it to kids on chemo etc. the test would be completely useless.

Re: tetanus

BoreOfWhabylon
Not vaccinated your children at all ??

Ever heard of tetanus? For god's sake, educate yourself.

Tetanus spores are common and are found in soil and manure. Tetanus is a notifiable disease, with around 10 cases per year notified in England and Wales. It's rare in children here (at risk groups include the elderly and injecting drug users). Total deaths from tetanus in England and Wales over the 20 year period up to 2013 totalled 13.

In the light of this information, BoreofWhabylon, can you please explain why you think tetanus is such a risk for children? Where are the cases of tetanus amongst unvaccinated children?

bumbleymummy
"Special - so before the tetanus vaccine was introduced all children who played in the garden got tetanus did they? "

Hakluyt
No. But a significant number who sustained puncture wounds in such circumstances did.

Hakluyt please explain what your comment above is based on; I find your claim highly improbable. When you say 'a significant number', what figures/research are you referring to? How, and over what period, was data on puncture wounds collected and for what age groups? And for the purpose of your claim, how was a puncture wound defined?

Do you not believe that Tetanus vaccination reduced Tetanus cases, Fascicle?

face palm

Wow, that's pretty scary Fascicle. So out of about 200 cases over 20 years, 13 Actually died. Despite western medicine etc. That's a huge percentage! Clearly it's an illness that is difficult to treat. The sort of illness where prevention is so much better than cure.

I was asked repeatedly by my midwives about all family history of me, dh, our parents and siblings and existing dcs. We were then asked again (including specific questions about allergies and a long tick list about other conditions and illnesses) by the Health visitor when the dcs were a few weeks old, then again pre vaccination. I was given literature about each and every vaccination prior to the appointment, and asked if I wanted to ask anything at all before the injection was given.

We were then stayed in the room with the health visitor after the vaccination was given, to check for any allergic reactions or issues. Also given advice on how to treat any mild side effects (like temperatures or swelling) and told that if I had any concerns then I could call her or my gp for more advice.

I have had children in different areas around the UK, my eldest is a teen, my youngest has his first jabs this week, and this has happened for each and every one.

The risk of dying of Tetanus is far higher than the risk of serious vaccine reactions that we've been discussing.

Fascicle- before I waste my time getting figures for you, please could you say whether or not you believe vaccination works at all? I know people who don't, and I know it's no point trying to convince them.

Two questions re tetanus:

1. How many people who died of tetanus in those 20 years were drug addicts?
2. How many had already been vaccinated against tetanus?

Any particular reason you're asking those questions, LaVolcan? What's your opinion on vaccination?

Alyosha, I'm glad that you find it reassuring. Not everyone would. (Eg people who are trying to find info irt individual susceptible children) Does that mean they're wrong/stupid/a conspiracy theorist?

Re the test - why are you assuming it would give false positives?

Fascicle - ibs been asking for more info on the puncture wound comment since it was made but I haven't heard back yet.

Fuck - but look how many cases there are despite how apparently 'easy' it is to contract tetanus while your child is running around in the back garden. Iirc the cases are split fairly evenly between vaccinated and unvaccinated too 60/40 maybe?

As I said- I'm not going to mine for figures for people who don't believe that vaccination actually works. Confirm that's not the case and I'll see what I can do.

I ask because I can see the point of vaccinating agricultural workers, and stable hands, but can't fully see why this particular vaccine needs to be added to the UK vaccine schedule for babies.

I can see that yes, in places like sub-Saharan Africa, where newborns are at risk from tetanus infection in the cord stump because it's been cut with dirty instruments that this is the case - although again attempting to promote good hygiene should also be considered.

I don't know what the situation is with drug addicts - I would suspect that the drugs would damage their immune systems anyway?

As for me, I have had the full compliment of tetanus vaccines, which is now deemed to be 5, and a booster is no longer required, or so I was told 8 years ago by the practice nurse at the surgery.

Yes, my children were vaccinated, but not to the current schedules because they are now adults.

Surely everyone knows what a puncture wound is?

Almost every test gives false positives/negatives - I can't think of any 100% accurate tests out there (maybe people more knowledgeable than me can!)...that's on the of the great issues in our modern testing model. In a situation where the incidence of something is exceptionally low, the rate of false positives rises hugely. Just to give you a vague idea, if the test for our unknown, unspecifiable "susceptibility" to vaccine damage (that you haven't in any way described or quantified) were 99.9% accurate at identifying when babies were healthy, around 1000 of 1,000,000 babies would still test positive. Only 1 in 1000 babies would actually have this "susceptibility". I.e. the actual risk of a kid who tested positive would still only be 0.1%...hardly a compelling reason to reduce herd immunity to that extent.

Here's a whole page of worked examples show you more of what I mean: www.nuigalway.ie/exm/notes/example2.htm.

Bumbley - you haven't explained why you think that population study is inaccurate. Until you prove that it isn't, I'm going to trust it more than someone's random gut feeling.

How do you weigh up risk Bumbley - do you ever drive? Have you ever taken your children swimming?

Why should you have to mine for them? How were you able to say 'a significant number' if you didn't have any idea of the numbers? We're you just making it up?

LaV - the issue with drug addicts is dirty needles/contaminated drugs.

What are you talking about Bumbley? I'm a bit lost...