Back to Back Trouble. The Back Pain Support Thread.

[Matildathecat]

This is a support thread for people with back pain (that does not even cover the description of hell that back pain causes). It's for all types of back pain, for long term posters with chronic pain (including those on the upwards journey to recover), short term advice through tough acute episodes and all the in betweens.

We moan, winge, share successes, guide each other and hand hold through the maize of a million medical routes and options, treatments, investigations. We internet shop as a form of pain relief, drink wine, take strong painkillers, eat cake and we go through lots of heat packs!

We don't always have the answers but we do have a lot to say about it all

Here are the links to our previous threads:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/general_health/1871592-The-Back-Story
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/general_health/1992406-The-Back-Story-Continues
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/general_health/2023274-More-Terrible-Back-Stories
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/general_health/2049637-Back-Again-Back-Pain-Support-Thread?msgid=47419209#47419209

And some other useful links and info:

www.patient.co.uk/health/cauda-equina-syndrome-leaflet

We have done the hard work for you and learned about effective drug combining. Using NSAIDs, a stomach protector, paracetamol with or without codeine (it enhances the codeine), nerve pain meds such as gabapentin and/or amytriptiline can all be more effective than simply taking huge doses of opiates. Of course most people won't need all of this but for severe prolonged back injuries this is helpful to know.

Heat, gentle exercise, TENs, medication patches, diazepam and accupuncture, we've tried them all.

So if you are suffering come and join us, were a social lot.

pink I will try to post in a bit, but might fall asleep first (fucking knackered!), but in the meantime

1. don't go back to work tomorrow. you are NOT ready. The only way you will get to be ready to return to your current place of work, is with their absolute, 100% support, which clearly they are not giving you. You need another week off, to get yourself back on track with the pain a little, and to review your next steps (I personally would consider longer than a week, but I know it's not that simple when it's your income at stake).

1. See your GP for better pain relief, as already mentioned, it's another good reason to not be at work at the moment. You can use the time off work to adjust to the side effects of the pain killers. Stomach pain - remember to take it after food, if taking NSAIDS, take stomach acid reducing meds such as omepraxole.

1. Ask your employers for copies of your sickness absence policy, holiday leave policy and any other documents related to sick pay entitlement they might have. Use the time you are at home to read this paperwork. Also read section 6 of the Equality Act 2010 which covers employment rights for disabled people. There are also more sections to read. I will link to them later. When I get time (not sleeping) I will paraphrase the important bits as some people go like this when reading jargony shit.

I work 25 hours a week, 5 hours a day. In an office based job. I have had support issues with specific team members and have not been supported at times by them, but that's currently not an issue, due to external factors (team dynamics changed for the better) and atm my team are really supportive.

However, I can only work because of the huge level of support I have had from managers and HR. I have flexible working (had it as part of the type of work I do anyway, but given much more of that), have good sick pay (but not necessarily able to access it all, they could potentially fire me first), have lots of adjustments (height adjustable desk, chair, files moved, desk in specific location to lift/stairs/staff room), and people who will help. I also have a LOT of time off sick. But I have an ongoing back problem. At the time of my acute phase(s) I had between 3-5 weeks off, back for a few weeks/month or two, then another similar period off. I needed a couple of months off, at least. And maybe would have avoided longer term seesawing of attendance.

I am sorry that this is not 'it's gonna be fixed in a couple of weeks' situation. A severe prolapse is going to take a while. But, as already said, 'a while' cannot be timeframed wish it could. You are showing positive signs of improvement, and so hold on to that, and Do Not Rush it, else it will take longer to return to normality.

'That' is a quick post

pink the problem with increasing your amytriptyline, which the doc might or might not do, is that, you have a clear prolapse. If you mask your nerve pain completely, then return to a job which involved manual work, you will not know if you are doing more damage. You will be lured into a false sense of security, thinking that it's getting better more quickly than it really is, and you will do more damage. I would be very worried about that happening if you increase the meds.

The nerve painkillers are meant to help with the pain, but they won't fix the problem. Time, gentle physio and increasing with guidance is the only thing that's gonna fix this.

Any BFing mums on here who had surgery whilst feeding who can answer my question a few posts up?

cold so sorry, only just gazed quickly at the last couple of posts I can't answer the question about breastfeeding as DS had stopped when I had surgery.

But, we will definitely be here to hold you hands. It's a scary thing have surgery, but, you will be fine and before you know it you will be feeling so much better.

Thank you. I was so scared before I made the choice today (under strong recommendation of trusted consultant) feel better now decision is made but still nervous of the actual op, small risks and impact on DS.

How long did you need help with DC after op?

DS was 3.5 and DD was almost 7 so it was not so bad. I did barely anything for a couple of weeks, although I pretty much went straight back into the night duty with DS as DH simply does not wake up/choses to pretend to. Could have done without that, as had probably 2 nights off that max! I concentrated on what I could do, which was homework, hair brushing, bed time stories, cuddles. Could get drinks, and cut up dinner for DS, and that kind of thing, but that was my limit for around 2 weeks.

You will need to avoid lifting for quite a while, I would be guided by physio and consultant on that one, as it's not the same as 'choosing' not to lift, it's a necessary part of parenting a baby! But, cuddles and feeds will be find I would think, as long as you are given baby and not leaning.

It may also take you a little longer, or a little shorter to recover enough to do more, depending on a few things - how quickly your body recovers naturally, what happens in surgery, i.e. is it straightforward, was the nerve trapped, as if so it might hurt a bit more for a little while after if they have to touch it to un-trap it etc, what layout of house you have etc.

For me, biggest problems were sitting, getting to sitting from standing and vice versa, and turning (like a robot!), but I very likely pushed myself to fast to quickly, was at my DDs sports day less than a week after it was done, went for longer walks than I probably should.

I was less nervous, more relieved I was finally going to get some relief from the endless pain.

Thanks Pavlov. Really helps to read that.

Also, may I ask about the after pain in comparison to the acute stage pain?

Also how long before you could wean of drugs - Tramadol etc?

Hi Cold - sounds like a good decision for you, & you'll be having the discectomy at what's apparently the optimal time for a good result (4-6 months). I've gone so long that my consultant thinks my chance of significant relief from the op. is about 80% now - I think he said 90% last time!

It's great that you can take DS in to BF, & that your consultant inspires confidence. Will be here to hand hold too!

cold haven't had op whilst bf but am a midwife and have bf quite a bit. Firstly get expressing straight away if you aren't already and stock up the freezer. Beware of expressing only foremilk as that won't keep your baby full for long and will be wanting that good filling hind milk. Be aware that some people find it almost impossible to express enough or easily and if so don't beat yourself up.

I had a friend who had to go away for a week when her baby was about seven months and she managed it. Freezer was bursting!

More importantly is to get your baby used to feeding from a bottle or even a cup. What I did was to bf for a few minutes then offer the bottle for a few minutes before finishing with bf. it worked fine but does take some perseverance. Throwing away rejected expressed milk is a bit of a nightmare but it does take most babies a little while to get the hang of it. Others get their partners to do the feeding so the baby can't smell you but doing it myself was best for me I'm a control freak .

On page 29 queenChrysyllis describes her micro discectomy in August. I think she has had a hard and slow recovery tbh. I think the doctors massively underplay the recovery because they never actually see it! Patient goes home and sees dr again several months later saying they feel better. I'm a misery but I say prepare for a while ie up to three months before you are feeling back to normalish. If you have mainly severe leg pain then that should improve very quickly and the surgery pain isn't so bad. It depends on whether bone is removed, though because that is quite sore.

I'm glad you are happy with the dr and hospital. Hopefully before too long you will be enjoying your baby as you should be. And huge respect for ebf all that time though I guess it is one thing you can do lying down .

Thank you all.

I'm preparing for a month of people with me to help move DS etc like they did first 2.5months of his life.

I'm not good at expressing and also forget, meant to start today already and haven't so thank you for the reminder.

Hoping I can get enough for the 2 days I need.

I did give him a bottle from 5 weeks every week or so but he hasn't had one for a couple of months so I hope he is still ok with it! Will have to practice now.

All tips welcome, especially how to cope after op with recession of movement again and how long pain and meds continue.

A month of help sounds sensible. And keep things quite low key.

Re expressing I strongly suggest contacting the breastfeeding coordinator for your local NCT as they are experts in extended bf and will give good advice. You might me able to hire a pump which is miles more effective than a hand held one though I got quite nifty with my Avent one.

Have also pm'd you.xx

Thank you. I have replied.

I agree with a month of good help, and if you need longer, ask for it.

Pain relief wise, I personally found it easy to reduce down to just 15/1000 cocodemol within two weeks, as I was lucky enough to 'recover' very quickly. Unfortunately, it didn't last. And that might, or might not be because I pushed myself to quickly. I was swimming at 6 weeks, and went bodyboarding at 11 weeks. I felt good and was absolutely not going to waste time. Wrong decision. It is likely that whatever is going on with me now (and tbh, who even knows, I certainly don't) would probably be happening anyway, but the prolapse might have been encouraged by my lack of slowness.

So, even if you do feel 'good', take it ultra slow, you won't do damage by not going fast with your recovery. And don't be disheartened if you don't find yourself recovering as quickly as you would like.

And for everyone, surgery or not, please remember this recovery is not linear.

This is sooo important. You recover a bit then stay the same, maybe go backwards a little, recover some more...

Healing takes as long as it takes. We do stuff anyway because we are human and want or need to but essentially we cannot dictate recovery. There is no brave battle, she who tries hardest wins. Or if there is, despite doing everything by the precise letter I am a failure and didn't try hard enough.

exactly matilda we can't predict the outcome, and there will always be backwards steps, but for the lucky few.

Hi I went to my docs today he signed me off another 3 wks, he said it has been nine weeks and have had alot of improvrment from when I first saw him, he said can take 12 wks to 12 months to heal a severe disc, he gave me more naproxen, diazapan and a new one gabapentine to replace amitriptyline. He also said that I coukd have flared it up again by doing too much when I was alot better, I still have to take things easy. Anyone done a bulging dusc and know healing process.

Has anyone had any luck getting support for help from nhs. In not sure how long I can expect people to put themselves out again for me. It's a lot to ask.

Speaking to local bf expert on Thursday, think they lend pro pumps which should help. Extra pumping might get milk up so when I'm not feeding and so pump not draining as well as DS I might not drop too much under what he needs.

Saddened that its come to surgery but consultant said it was the best option for me. 2 months ago when I last saw him he suggested time still so know he's not knife happy.

Really thought I'd be able to physio my way out of pain.

The best advice I've been given is don't look ahead (really hard for me). Take it a few days at a time.

If I'd been told in May I'd be here in September I would have crumbled. But I've done it, DS is happy and healthy and there is light. Life hasn't been what I thought it would be and there have been very painful days, but mostly I can cope. Only cried 5 times.

pink well done for 3 weeks more off, you need that. As many have already said below, in response to your questions earlier, there is no time frame, your doc is right, it can take as little as 12 weeks, or as long as 12 months (or more), there is no process as such, as matilda said, recovery is not linear. The disc needs time to move back into position and that takes a long time.

remember to keep moving, gently, with rest in between, are you seeing a physio for advice on exercises to do? If not, request one asap. heat encourages new blood to circulate into the area, which will assist in recovery, but is by no means a magic cure.

as frustrating as it is, there is not magic cure. Time, some effort, patience, pain meds.

Hi all. Pink, it's good you've been signed off for longer; & it sounds as if your GP is being pretty realistic about your condition. I think gapapentin can take time to get used to & can have a few side-effects -there are others here who take it - but is often really effective for nerve pain. Fingers crossed it helps you.

If you're in further contact with work, I'd repeat to them what your GP said about how long it can take a disc to heal, & how yours is severely bulging. They need to know this isn't some minor strain or sprain.

Coldcottage, I try not to look too far ahead too! I remember reading in a book about mindfulness that you only ever have to cope with the pain of the present moment, one moment at a time. But it's difficult - I find it particularly hard planning ahead, not knowing what I'm going to be able to do at a given time.

My pain is very unpredictable. Have had a sudden resurgence of nerve pain really low down in my right calf / ankle - stinging, twangy feelings (anyone else get that? Like someone's twanging a rubber band against you?) & the familiar cramps, as well as tingling / pins & needles in the foot. Can't think of a single trigger. Haven't done anything differently, & on Thursday & Friday last week I hardly had any leg pain at all.

Hope you're still enjoying the sunshine, matilda, & that your flare-ups are improving, pavlov & maizie.

Hi loon, and pavlov, I rang work on weds when got new note and told them, two hrs later had text asking if I was bk at work as they desperate. I really dint understand too much about healing a disc can anyone explain. I am having bupa physio, 12 sessions free.

Also can anyone recommend any painkilkers, nerve pain rekeif or anti imflammatories to try and how far did u all get before surgery was done and what else was tried before that. Did any of you have sviatic pain with your disc problem or just back pain. Thanks. Sorry to ask so many questions but its good to hear from peopke that are suffering rather than just a gp medical point of view.

Hi pink - the people in charge at your work seem to be doing their best not to listen to what you're telling them. Matilda gave good advice upthread - you really need to check out your workplace Sickness Policy & ensure they're doing what they should be. Texting you asking you to go in when you've just let them know that you've been signed off for another 3 weeks is really not acceptable. Independent advice might be a good idea - I think matilda suggested the CAB.

Okay, to try & answer your questions. Re. meds, first, you're on naproxen, which is a good anti-inflammatory. The diazepam you've been given is to tackle the muscle spasms that often go along with disc problems, & the gabapentin you've just been prescribed is a nerve pain drug. I take dicflofenac, which is similar to naproxen, & have tried pregabalin, which does a similar job to the gabapentin. I also use co-codamol as a pain-killer, & find it very useful.

My disc prolapse has manifested mainly in leg pain / sciatica. I do get back pain & stiffness in the affected segment, but the leg pain has always been the main symptom & much more severe than the back pain.

Re. other treatments etc. & time-frames: I started physio 3 months after problems started (long waiting lists) & didn't get an MRI until 5 months. It took another couple of months to get the results from that, & then I saw a consultant nearly 10 months after my pain first began. I was offered surgery at that point or the option of trying a steroid nerve root injection & chose the latter. Had the injection in May, it didn't work & I eventually saw the consultant again on Thursday. Am now waiting for a new MRI to see if the disc has started to heal at all. If not, I need to decide about discectomy.

I think I've already told you everything I've heard /read about disc healing upthread so can't add anything there. Mine hasn't healed, but I'm in the small minority of people not better after a year.

If you want to read anything about your back problems while you're off work, I'd recommend any books by the physiotherapist Sarah Key. I have The Back Sufferers Bible, & another smaller book which I can't remember the name of (but they're on amazon). I've also got a good book called Yoga for Lower Backs, with clearly explained, very gentle yoga poses & stretches.

Been reading lots of the the threads here and thankful for such wisdom .
I have crushed disc and spondylosis on L5 ...back pain and shooting pain into groin. I have been referred for mri of lumbar spine as I can barely walk some days despite painkillers .

This is where it gets acutely embarrassing given what you all have been through . I am terrified of having to lie flat for a long time . Do they give you a pillow? I cannot breathe flat on my back and panic . How long did it take?
Sounds pathetic I know ........had mri of head a few years back and managed fine. so many health worries now . I have lost my backbone in more ways than one .
thank you for reading . I am terrified and feel so stupid.

Hi Bassetfeet! When I had my MRI they gave me a cushion / bolster thing to rest my lower legs on as it hurt to lie flat. Didn't have anything under my head, as far as I remember. You could take something with you just in case they don't provide any supports.

I was really frightened before mine, it's not just you! I thought it would be more claustrophobic than it actually was, & took some diazepam first just in case. It wasn't as bad as I was expecting, but the diazepam made me nice & drowsy so it went by quite quickly. Might be worth talking to your GP about something like that, just so you have one less thing to worry about.

Sorry that you're suffering too.

Thank you Loon for your reply . very helpful .
I am so annoyed at myself with this fear ..... I just hope they allow me to to have a pillow for my head. I cannot lie flat on my back due to breathing difficulties that set off panic. I will ask my doctor for some diazepam . thank you for kind words