Back to Back Trouble. The Back Pain Support Thread.

[Matildathecat]

This is a support thread for people with back pain (that does not even cover the description of hell that back pain causes). It's for all types of back pain, for long term posters with chronic pain (including those on the upwards journey to recover), short term advice through tough acute episodes and all the in betweens.

We moan, winge, share successes, guide each other and hand hold through the maize of a million medical routes and options, treatments, investigations. We internet shop as a form of pain relief, drink wine, take strong painkillers, eat cake and we go through lots of heat packs!

We don't always have the answers but we do have a lot to say about it all

Here are the links to our previous threads:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/general_health/1871592-The-Back-Story
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/general_health/1992406-The-Back-Story-Continues
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/general_health/2023274-More-Terrible-Back-Stories
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/general_health/2049637-Back-Again-Back-Pain-Support-Thread?msgid=47419209#47419209

And some other useful links and info:

www.patient.co.uk/health/cauda-equina-syndrome-leaflet

We have done the hard work for you and learned about effective drug combining. Using NSAIDs, a stomach protector, paracetamol with or without codeine (it enhances the codeine), nerve pain meds such as gabapentin and/or amytriptiline can all be more effective than simply taking huge doses of opiates. Of course most people won't need all of this but for severe prolonged back injuries this is helpful to know.

Heat, gentle exercise, TENs, medication patches, diazepam and accupuncture, we've tried them all.

So if you are suffering come and join us, were a social lot.

Hi, yes I had mri and was told quite severe disc bulge l5, and s1 nerve impingement, my leg pain has gone apart from up near the top of back thigh,I am taking paras, naproxen and ddiazepan, if I dont take diazepan I have 20mg of amitriptyline, not sure if I can increase dose of that.
do you all get good days and bad days as I think I am doing well then wham it comes back ti bite me in the bum.

Pinkola - never heard about the 1mm of nerve healing, or the centralisation of pain either. Although the centralisation of pain makes sense. Nerve damage can take a while to heal, so that is entirely possible, that you still have pain but the healing is taking place, and also agree with others that discs can spontaneously heal. When did you have the MRI? I am surprised you have had such high levels of pain with a clearly impinged nerve and no surgery mentioned, unless it was mentioned and ruled out for now? Of course, it's often best to wait to see if it heals, but, that is not always the best solution if you can't manage with the pain.

If, as it sounds like it might be, the disc is healing, or the nerves at least are, then yes definitely try gabapentin or pregabalin to help cope with the butt pain as it heals.

I am sorry to announce the absolute end of my low pain period from the injection. It's done. Completely and utterly. Back to normal . Had some significantly increased pain since the weekend/Sunday. yesterday, horrendous, awful flu feeling through my back and right leg, felt very unwell with it, headache, lightheaded, thought I was maybe coming down with a bug I felt so horrible although it was mainly within my spine. My blood feels sick. I feel like there is a sickness there. I don't know how else to explain it. Some pain in my fingers, tight chest, almost like I can't breathe but not my lungs - that has largely passed now and I am left with the flu feeling in my back, which is a little swollen too, pain down both legs, but largely in my right leg. Hurts to walk, can't really pick my feet up, so sir tot shuffling, and my back is stiffening by the minute. I expect by tomorrow I will be bent over once again.

The problem with the injection is it's reminded me of what it is like to feel mostly 'normal' again. What I am largely missing in life. And, this pain is fucking horrible, I can't believe I managed this, crazy how our bodies cope with chronic pain isn't it? How the fuck have I been living like this? I know I will get 'used' to it to some extent, Get A Grip and all that, but wow. I hurt so much.

I think I am doing well then wham it comes back to bite me in the bum

Yes, that sums it up for me too, pinkkoala! I've thought I was getting better several times, but in my case it hasn't lasted. I do think it's a good sign, though, that your pain's no longer extending below the thigh.

Looking at your meds, what strikes me is that your actual pain-killer isn't very powerful at all. Could your GP not prescribe co-codamol / tramadol, rather than plain paracetamol, along with the NSAIDs & diazepam? I find co-codamol incredibly helpful, epecially for pain that comes on quite quickly when I'm out & about. I just take it when I need it, not at regular times as with NSAIDs.

Pavlov, that sounds shit. Can't remember if you've had all your blood tests done for thryoid function/ autoimmune stuff? I used to get the lightheaded, not-fully-breathing sensation, along with aching pain in joints like my fingers, before I was on thryoid medication. Obviously, the spine wasn't central to that, though. I wonder if your diseased discs keep leaking out crappy stuff?

Will you be able to have the injection repeated regularly, or is it something you can only have once or twice? It's cruel to have to go back to all the old pain after so much improvement.

I have managed to delay the big surgery decision again today - coward that I am. It was actually the consultant who said I should have another MRI as it's nearly a year since the last one, so I'll make a decision after that. Or I guess if it shows improvement, that will be the decision made for me. The consultant was great today - he was running really late but didn't make me feel at all rushed. He answered my questions & talked to me like an intelligent person. A bit of humanity goes a long way when you're dealing with people in pain - a shame not all the medics we've come into contact with can manage it.

Hiya all and sorry to hear so many are suffering so badly lately.
Pavlov- that is shitty that the good effect has dissipated now, hope you can get another soon- or could it even tip off abblation or similar?
your words are so true pink- often getting side-swiped by getting worse after a period of being better.
Have been alot worse than "my usual" since a few days ago - partly caused by doing a bit too much round the house, partly by having sex (sorry if tmi)- which I have noticed makes my general pain level worse the next day. On the one hand seems logical- on the other a bit bizarre. Had very broken sleep last night after coming to bed late because i was abit too achey to properly feel sleepy. woken by my son who is autistic and every now and again he wakes at night and stays awake making noises, babbling etc. mostly dh can sleep through it and I cannot. I was already using my hottie first thing after getting back from taking dd to nursery, unusual for me as pregablin and diclofenac usually keep me on an even keal in the am but i hadnt had breakkie- so didnt take the diclo until i got back and so totally failed at "staying ahead of the pain".

Because the last few days have been worse I held off taking codeine, i had it 2/3 times yesterday and so felt i might need it more later on. I ummed and ahhed over yoga but i forced myself to go because I really feel nothing has made it feel much better the last few days so why not, but just be careful. But I am so stupid i took my pill bag but forgot the pregablin, and bought a bit too much on the way home (food) so although after the yoga I felt fantastic, by the time i got home I could feel it coming back with a vengeance and taking paracetamol and codeine (30) was only partially helpful. I feel stupid to have managed my pain so badly today- but hopefully I will also have a benefit tomorrow as usually happens.

It feels "different" in the muscles of my back the last few days and I wonder if this is a spasm like several of you have felt. It was starting to make me bend over forward a bit yesterday, but not quickly like a sudden spasm would, very slowly. And I kept straightening myself out all day. Also usually heat is my ultimate friend but last few days I only feel i can use it a bit and then the area feels aggravated by heat, as if inflammed in the tissue- although i know it may not be that at all, just feel that way. It feels so much like the actual flesh/muscle there is bruised, like something has smacked me there- rather akin to your cricket bat feeling matilda. I have also had alot more problems with sitting since it flared up- which is usually not so much of an issue with me.

I did a very silly thing this am too. but luckily it came out ok. I took dd to nursery in her buggy and I was in a bit of a pain fog due to only having the pregab and not diclofenac as well before i left. When dh got up about 10, he noticed the buggy wasnt outside our house! I had lft it in our local shop at around 9, and hadnt yet twigged. at least i got it back but i felt rather stupid!

sorry this post has come out very mememe- I am just a bit worried it is going to stay worse, and i start uni again next week.

pink, loon is right about your meds- unless you dont want to take codeine, some people are much more sensitive to it- it can be really effective to manage pain. loon don't feel bad about stalling a decision on surgery- arent we being told it is generally good to wait as long as possible as things can change/ get a bit better on their own but slowly. not easy decision to make and they don't make it easier on you as nothing is clear-cut. sounds very sensible to re-do the mri anyways

I don't know what to think about the 1mm healing thing as mine has been gong on (on and off) for yrs, i don't know when the bulges on l4/5 and l5/s1 have been there as they only did it in summer, and my pain has gotten worse as time goes on- which seems opposite,and has gone away for periods too so not i don't know what to think. Apparently they are "very mild" bulges, and some even think dont cause pain ata all ho hum

Its interesting to hear all other stories, I had co codamol as well ftom doc but it gave me awful pains in my tummy, I have what I describe as a knotty pain in my thigh and def muscle pain or spasm in my bum cheek. I had my mri on9th august aftet being reffered end of july. I actually did my disc the last wkend Iin july. Surgery was mentioned but I wanted to try other method first, meds and physio. I am currently off work as work as care assistant in private care hone. Gp thinks this has aggravated my condition, he knows where I work as he deals with a lot of our residents. I would appreciate hearing any other advice you all have.

Hiya pink - did you make sure you ate before you took the co-codamol, it can quite significantly change your reaction to it. I've been caught even recently ( and I have taken codeine on and off for most of 5 years) by taking them on a nearly empty stomach. They just don't agree with some people of course.

Hiya pink - did you make sure you ate before you took the co-codamol, it can quite significantly change your reaction to it. I've been caught even recently ( and I have taken codeine on and off for most of 5 years) by taking them on a nearly empty stomach. They just don't agree with some people of course.

I'm sure you don't wany to trawl back in to the thread so as you said you like others' stories here is a potted version of mine:
When pregnant in 2009, I had a condition called spd that caused instability of the pelvis and subsequently much pain in back, hips, pelvis area. It mostly resolvd after the birth (which was emergency csbut left some hip pain and they found one of my hips was a bit dysplastic but I decided I wanted to put off surgery as it wasn't urgent. A bit under 2 yrs later I had another pregnancy, spd again and hthis time much worse- I waddled into work as a chef each day and sat on a stool to work (making sarnies mostly) as I couldnt stand for more than 5/10 mins. I took co-codamol through most of the pg'y. It got better again but still flared up sometimes, sometimes around my period it was alot worse. Got beter afteer dd's birth (vbac) but still had flare ups. I saw a chiropracter from just before dd was born and am still seeing her . A bad flare up in November just styed bd and I was signed off since, have recently resigned and am re-training in psychology

Hi everyone, checking in from my holiday in the Canary Islands. Nice and warm, though not otherwise much up my street.

pink, I hadn't realised how new your injury is. I know thi seems endless and awful but in disc terms, the fact that you are improving is very good news. If you can avoid surgery now it will help you in the long run. Either way you will always have a 'back'. I strongly suggest better and stronger painkillers to help you deL with it. Yes, cocodamol or tramadol do take some getting used to but work well for generalised pain and spasms. Gapapentin is good for nerve pain which is the leg pain. Please do see your GP and get a plan for starting these very gradually and increasing the doses to a level you can tolerate but gives you good pain control. This does take time but is so worth it.

My SIL had a disc go a L 4/5 last Christmas and had mainly leg pain but over about six months it had really improved. She knows how to manage it ( what triggers her is almost exactly the opposite of me, so we are all different).

pavlov, just sending huge sympathy. I do think, however that the fact that th injection was so successful is hopeful in that I was repeatedly told that if they could find a spot that worked then they could offer longer term treatment. I imagine that was ablation. Keep the faith, my friend. I hope the weekend brings respite.

Loon, new MRI sounds a good idea. Consultant sounds like a human being which is always a good start .

maizie, sorry you are so sore. Maybe a restful day or two then more yoga. I did a good session of Pilates this morning and had a hot stone massage which was fab. Still in huge pain today, though which I expected due to travel two days ago. I have a 48 hour lag time quite often. Annoying to be spending a holiday lying down but have done some lovely swimming.

And hot stone massage is the business. Please add to your bucket list and then action it.

pink as your injury is relatively newly diagnosed, and there are signs of some improvement, there is a bloody good chance you can get through this without surgery. You need to:
get that physio sorted asap. Core strength is KEY to successful recovery.
be prepared to work fucking hard, and for a long time to recover. I don't mean running miles in the gym, but perseverance and lots of slips backwards, physically and emotionally, but that's normal, and ok.
up you pain relief to the maximum you can tolerate. Don't be stoic. Don't be 'brave' and try to manage without. Honestly just take all the painkillers available. As you improve, you can reduce them and in time consider coming off them completely but don't think it's a sign of weakness to take the absolutely strongest painkillers to knock this shit into touch. I have spent so long over the years fighting the pain relief, not wanting to become 'addicted' (i'm still not, almost 3 years in, have come off them fine when needed, only to realise, they were still needed for pain management after all!), and all I did was just have more pain to deal with.
Look at other pain relief options such as injection to help with nerve pain if that's offered. It works for some, not others.
Keep the faith that the majority of people with disc problems can recover with time.

matilda oh warm. nice. I could do with that. well, I have my heat bottle.

loon think MRI is the best idea. my surgeon, dick that he is, did make sense when we talked before surgery about what would happen if I felt better on the day of surgery and didn't want to proceed - he said he would not want me to have the surgery in case it meant waiting for ages again. He would, if symptoms deteriorated again, put me back on the waiting list for surgery without needing to see me again, if less than 1 year, but a year or more (or close to) and he would want a new MRI to be sure it was the same problem. This way, you know for certain that if you opt for surgery, it's absolutely the right diagnosis.

At 5 months after delivery, do you think I could see a chiropractor?

I have been told by my physio that she doesn't think she can help as I'm in too much pain to do any exercises. Had referred me back to consultant. Thinks that something is blocked around L5S1 which is why I am so twisted to compensate and still in pain.

Have consultant appointment on Monday. Think I might go for a 2nd injection and then surgery if that doesn't work (really don't want surgery)

Has anyone else had this after birth? How was the recovery? Want to maintain EBF and then will start to wean in a month but still want to bf so no nerve drugs etc

Cold, am I remembering right in thinking you have a diagnosed disc bulge? If so, you shouldn't try chiropractic manipulation. It can make things worse.

I should say that I did see a chiro early on when I didn't know my problem was discogenic, & he didn't do any harm (or much good). But he suspected earlier than my GP that I had a prolapse, & said that continued manipulation wouldn't be appropriate.

DH has seen the same chiro for acute simple back pain & he's been great - has managed to loosen a stiff segment in the spine & help ease ease off the intense grip of a major muscle spasm, so DH has been able to mobilise & exercise. But DH doesn't have a disc prolapse, so there weren't the same risks.

If you're incredibly stiff / twisted, a low dose of diazepam - eg. 2mg x 3 per day for a few days - would probably really help you. But I doubt that's compatible with BF.

Otherwise, you need to be doing much less demanding, gentler exercises than your physio is prescribing. I have a couple of books by the physio Sarah Key - I think she's got a website too - & there are exercises she recommends (particularly rocking on back with knees up towards chest) that are good for most back conditions.

Some of the most basic core exercises - eg. lying on back, knees bent, drawing in pelvic floor & lower abdominals & holding a few seconds - can also be good, even if they don't feel like they're doing much at the time. I was taught that in physio. after I had my twins - no back problems then, but major abdominal muscle separation - & it did help, slowly but surely.

If even those sorts of exercise are too much, just making sure you are spending short periods -5-10 minutes here & there - in a "rescue position" - eg. lying semi-supine, or with legs up on a chair, or whatever helps for you - can help to switch off a bad muscle spasm.

Sorry, all a bit rambly. This must be so hard for you with a young baby.

Thanks Loon, I have also been recommended a physio who specialises in women after birth and who does manipulation.

I have some diazepam so might give that another go. BFing you can take low doses (2/2/2 or 5/2/2) for a 3 day period (as per the Breastfeeding Network drugs specialists)

Hows everyone, does anyone know on average how long a severe bulgingbdisc will take to heal, my numb foot has gone and my leg is ok upto back of top thigh but the back pain is worse than ever was. Do any of you have full time jobs and how do you manage, I am a care assistant and my doc knowd I like my job but has said have I thought about doing sonething else, he isnt keen for me to go back to that. I have had few really baf days again, I am so sick of thinking its getting better then it starts again, I have haf a cry last few days.

Morning, I have just had bupa physio and tried acupunture today, not sure if it helps as at the mo I hurt more, having bad day oain wise, had a cry again, Iwas doing well then back to being Iin loads pain again, how long do discs take to heal and nerve pain take to go.

Oh pink, I wish I knew the answer! So sorry you're having a bad time & the pain is so severe. You need stronger pain-killers, you really do. For many people the side-effects of things like co-codamol do wear off over time. I honestly think you need to have another discussion about pain relief with your GP.

Re. time frames & so on - can only repeat the statistics about most prolapses starting to heal within 3-6 months, most being fully healed at 6, & how at 2 years there's no overall difference between those who had surgery & those who waited for their discs to heal spontaneously.

I can feel the frustration coming from your posts & really empathize. You are going to get better, it is a really positive sign that the leg pain's easing off, even if it probably doesn't feel like it when your back hurts so much.

But I don't think anyone's going to be able to give you a more precise time scale - & I don't think you are going to be able to rush back into a job where you're doing a lot of bending & lifting. You just can't rush it.

Loon, thankyou for replying. I has only been 9wks since I dobe the disc severely, I am due back to gp tomorrow as sick note runs out. Work are starting to put pressure on me to return, even texting me to see if I can cover shifts and sending me letters asking me hiw they can get me back and paying me holiday pay even though my note covered my week off, so I got ssp plus holiday pay but then cant take the holiday as now lost. How do you all cope with day to day living plus working and what jobs do you do, do any of you get any sort of disability allowance or such like.

Work sound like bastards - not surprised you're desperate to know when you'll be better. I'm sure that paying you holiday pay when you're ill can't be legal? Have they cocked up?

The fact is that at 9 weeks you're still in the acute stages of a prolapse, & you're not ready to go back to a job where you're lifting & supporting people. Work should not be hassling you at all. Do they understand that you have a diagnosed disc prolapse, not just "simple back pain"?

There are others on here who know a load more than I do about employers' obligations, disability payments (think they're called something else now?) etc. - hopefully there'll be someone who can give you some advice.

I only teach a very few hours a week - was a SAHM when I had my boys & have never gone back to work properly - so I'm very lucky that this hasn't been a key issue for me. There are others who manage much more work, but I doubt you'll find anyone here who would tell you to rush back into care work 9 weeks after a prolapse.

Good luck with the GP.

pink, I agree with everything above. You are getting better but this is a serious injury and it takes time. Your GP is right to be getting you thinking along the lines of different work in the long term. For now you are sick. Really, properly sick. Not on holiday. When you say they are contacting you and asking you to cover shifts this sounds verging on the illegal. Is there any kind of hr dept in charge of all this. There should be a sickness policy and they have to follow it. This might include meetings, discussions about workplace adjustments and phased return, but for now you are not anywhere near fit to return.

I have read that if you can recover from a first disc prolapse really well then you will usually do well in the long term. Of you go back to work too soon and it goes again, then you are potentially in trouble as it becomes a chronic problem. Has your GP referred you for any other opinions? You mention bupa, do you have cover or are you paying because if so try to get it on the nhs. Sadly non of this really aids healing, just keeps your core stronger and might help with pain (acupuncture).

I totally agree re stronger painkillers, if you need them then you need them.

Are work still paying you? If not you can claim contribution based ESA which you can start by phone. Easy to google but I'm happy to advise as I did get this for a whole year.

Play the long game. It's bloody hard but with patience you should be back to normal in time. Meantime start googling less physical jobs! ( I was a nurse then midwife, I know)

And why is the holiday pay lost? You continue to accrue holiday whilst on sick leave and paid. Challenge this or get advice from CAB. Ask for a copy of the Managing Sickness Policy and ask that they are following it correctly.

They do sound like bastards but this sounds like a big organisation and they are absolutely obliged to act within the law. If you are in a union do contact your rep for support.

After 4.5 months since my acute attack with my herniated disc I have seen the consultant (Reading Circle hospital) and I am having it shaved in a few weeks.

I was really scared of this but he gave me real confidence in this solution. He said as I've had pain since January and after the injection and physio I'm still not any better this is the best option.

I've been told I can even take DS in with me as EBF (will have to feed expressed milk for a day or two while strong drugs in system though).

Feel lucky to have an nhs slot at this lovely hospital. Has anyone else been seen there?

Please hold my hand through the op and post op as still nervous.

Did anyone who had the microdiscectomy find the shock of the surgery impacted on their milk? Or giving their babies a bottle for 2 days while the strong drugs were in your system made your baby not want to breastfeed anymore.

I work for bupa so they pay for 12 sessions of physio, including accupunture which I tried today, the girls at work are texting me to see if I can cover shifts. My mri showed no other problens in my spine other than l5 disc bulge affecting s1 nerve. With regard to me returning to work I have said if they gave me light duties my gp may let me back, I mentioned reception but they cant give me even two shifts a week on that, I currently work 4 shifts ad care assistant, thrn every time I take my doc note in my boss says I need to be 100 % fit before I can return as my job is very physical. I really dont want to have surgery and am ooen to any other option of treatnent, what are the injectiond like, are they very painful, do they work.

Can I ask to my doc to increase my amitriptyline from 20mg to something stronger to get rid of nerve pain or my physio said about gabapentine.