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Back to Back Trouble. The Back Pain Support Thread.

998 replies

Matildathecat · 02/06/2014 18:08

This is a support thread for people with back pain (that does not even cover the description of hell that back pain causes). It's for all types of back pain, for long term posters with chronic pain (including those on the upwards journey to recover), short term advice through tough acute episodes and all the in betweens.

We moan, winge, share successes, guide each other and hand hold through the maize of a million medical routes and options, treatments, investigations. We internet shop as a form of pain relief, drink wine, take strong painkillers, eat cake and we go through lots of heat packs!

We don't always have the answers but we do have a lot to say about it all Smile

Here are the links to our previous threads:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/general_health/1871592-The-Back-Story
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/general_health/1992406-The-Back-Story-Continues
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/general_health/2023274-More-Terrible-Back-Stories
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/general_health/2049637-Back-Again-Back-Pain-Support-Thread?msgid=47419209#47419209

And some other useful links and info:

www.patient.co.uk/health/cauda-equina-syndrome-leaflet

We have done the hard work for you and learned about effective drug combining. Using NSAIDs, a stomach protector, paracetamol with or without codeine (it enhances the codeine), nerve pain meds such as gabapentin and/or amytriptiline can all be more effective than simply taking huge doses of opiates. Of course most people won't need all of this but for severe prolonged back injuries this is helpful to know.

Heat, gentle exercise, TENs, medication patches, diazepam and accupuncture, we've tried them all.

So if you are suffering come and join us, were a social lot. Smile

OP posts:
Maiziemonkey · 19/09/2014 01:48

hiya all, thats great about the facet joint ablation qod-
wow half marathon! is that 13.5 miles? i couldnt even approach that
eyebags- you prob know this already but codeine is much more effective if taken at the same time as the paracetamol.
gosh what alot on your plate matilda, last thing neededbut i know you are a good soul, thats why you are so nice to him, i'm sure he really appreciates it. hope someone else in your dh's family can have a turn for a bit though. I'm shocked a hospital in your area would discharge him so late in a vulnerable state- thought thats just inner city style?
cannot remember who posted it- maybe loon? but anyway the thing about not knowing your "too much" until too late is soooooo true. This happened today a bit to me. I did a yoga class and then had a bit of rest at home and a bath to ease my muscles. I went out to try a curry place with my friend (known her since about 7 yrs old) and had a good time for a while but suddenly got very achey and had to cut the night short. I hadn"t taken my evening pregablin because i was having a glass of wine so i think that change and then the wine wearing off- along with the yoga payback, made me suddenly very achey. all's well that ends well anyway. I maybe could have planned better but as you say matilda it is tricky
I am being told do lots of yoga/pilates/physio but i do notice i often have to take codeine twice rather than once. I get that getting stronger and better posture is good but it is very slow improvement
hope you all have lovely dreamy sleep tonight. :)

ColdCottage · 19/09/2014 03:32

Pink, scroll up, sounds a lot like me (about 800 posts down).
Mine went acute in May a week after DS born. I had a cortisone injection in my spine which got me out of the acute stage even if not left me pain free. I can now walk without crutches and am nearly upright first thing in the morning so does get better. Ask for an injection.

I'm not better but so so much better than I was, couldn't look after DS for first 2 1/2 months of his life. Please don't be too disheartened.

LoonvanBoon · 19/09/2014 23:00

Hi pink - sorry you're suffering too. I have the same diagnosis as you (but it's the right leg affected!) although am not in as much pain at the moment.

Has your GP referred you to a specialist? If not, do push for that, especially as you've had an MRI & know what the problem is. Nerve root injections can help some people, & might be a possibility - in theory they can reduce the inflammation in the area so the disc heals more easily.

Most disc prolapses do heal by themselves eventually whether or not they're treated, so you do have every reason to think it will get better. But surgery (discectomy/ microdiscectomy) might be an option, too, especially if there are progressive neurological problems - weakness, numbness etc. I'm considering that ATM but am leaning away from that option, as it does obviously carry risks.

Incidentally, one of the tests to see if the S1 nerve root is working okay is to stand one-legged on your affected leg, with good leg raised off the ground (knee bent) & see if you can push up on the toes of your affected leg. If you can (I can now) there's probably no significant damage to the S1 nerve.

Like you, though, I have narrowing from the disc bulge, both lateral recesses, & it gives stenosis-like symptoms, especially when standing. Do you get leg cramps where you simply can't stand any more? That's the thing I've hated the most!

This is a link from the British Assocation of spine surgeons about disc surgery, in case that is something you're considering.

www.spinesurgeons.ac.uk/patients/patient-information/lumbar-discectomy-and-decompression

What kind of exercises are you doing with your physio? Do be careful of too much hyperextension. I know it's often recommended for disc problems but it can make things worse for some people - it caused a big relapse for me, 2 months in, when my condition had been improving. I've found books by the physiotherapist Sarah Key very helpful - a) in explaining what's going on in the back & b) in providing exercises that do seem to help.

The work situation must be stressful but you can't really rush disc recovery. The old advice used to be bed rest, & although it's not advised any more, I think there can be too much push to get people back to full activity too quickly. If your care work is very physical, you are going to have to take as long as it needs.

If the amitryptilline wipes you out, there are other nerve drugs that may have fewer side-effects. I found pregabalin helpful for my leg symptoms although am no longer on it now.

pinkkoala · 19/09/2014 23:20

What do you mean with hyperextension with physio, what does that involve, I had physio a week on ago and a week to the day after I was in extreme pain to the point of the strong meds again, doc has said surgery wouldnt be considered as the s1 nerve psin, tingling has eased a helk of a lot, itsthe lower back that is giving me the most pain and in the cherk of my bum, how long do disc bulges take to heal.

LoonvanBoon · 20/09/2014 12:09

Hi pink - I just meant exercises that put the back into a hyperextended position, like push ups / poses like the cobra in yoga. They push the lowest vertebrae together, so can squeeze the already bulging disc still more.

I think most disc bulges start to heal within 4-6 weeks, but can take much longer. It could be that yours has healed to an extent, but the bulge that's left is still causing enough narrowing in the spinal canal to pinch the nerve roots. Don't know why the doctor (was that your GP?) doesn't see the bum pain as connected with the nerve impingement - it's a pretty classic symptoms of nerve irritation, though not specific to the S1 nerve root.

It's 15 months since I first hurt my back. I had agonizing leg pain to start with & couldn't sit down at all. It started to wear off & a couple of months in I thought I was on the way to recovery- & that's when I started the physio that stirred it all up again! Don't be put off by my experience, though, as lots of physios are great, I'm sure. Mine just wouldn't listen & seemed to discount my experience of which movements made things worse. The key thing is that if any exercise increases leg pain / tingling / numbness, stop doing it. I have heard that the so-called centralization of pain is a good thing, so maybe that is an encouraging sign?

I'm loads better than I was, just not back to normal by a long way. I've been given the option of surgery, but I think that's because after a year the chances of a full recovery are, statistically at least, much lower. If your symptoms are moving in the right direction, it certainly makes sense to wait. Surgery wouldn't be a quick fix, anyway, & it can take months for a full recovery from that.

My mum had a couple of disc prolapses, years ago, & took several months to recover each time, but did get back to full activity, doing long walks, etc. etc. There have been people here on the back thread who have had improvements after a long period, too, so don't lose hope. It is really frustrating, though, when you think you're getting better & then go back to square one - I can relate to that!

Matildathecat · 20/09/2014 12:47

Bloody hell just lost a great long post.

Hyper extension would be something like this

cobra pose

Surgery not great for back pain and sounds as if you are recovering. It can take a long time. Usually a few months but can be a couple of years ( sorry).

Make sure you are maximising the right combination of drugs and keep off work as long as you need. Sadly work can be a casualty, especially heavy or physical work. However, you can recover but accepting modifications is pretty inevitable.

OP posts:
Matildathecat · 20/09/2014 12:48

Sorry link not working but google for an image.

OP posts:
tootsey · 20/09/2014 16:20

Just discovered this thread. I too am one with back pain. Had 3 MRI'S in total 2011-12. Have disc bulge in T5 T6. Also sacrolitis (bad speller) of the lower spine. The last year or so my back is sore every day in the one spot halfway down my back just left of my spine. It seems to be when I do anything that involves bringing my hands up to that level, lie washing the dishes or writing, or typing this, then the pain kicks in, (like now!). I cannot seem to get away from this and nothing helps. Was at docs on Friday, and he says because i had not been for the past 6 months, there must be nothing wrong with my back!!

Matildathecat · 20/09/2014 19:23

Hi Tootsey sorry you are on pain and also sorry your GP is such an arse. I've just lost a longish post I wrote you so this will be a bit briefer. T5/6 is a bit of an unusual disc to go, it seems more lumber and cervical but maybe your other spinal problem has contributed? Is it scoliosis?

Are you taking meds? If not, please do. Not point in suffering. Another, nicer GP will prescribe,I'm sure. If you give a bit more info on what it's like and what helps etc we might be able to advise ( though not doctors). Also have you seen a spinal specialist? Physio or injections could help. I've also enjoyed Alexander Technique.

Anyway welcome aboard our merry band of back sufferers, there are a lot of us around, it turns out. Moaning fine. And shopping or general chit chat.

On the subject of internet shopping just got these www.flylondonshop.co.uk/womens/wedges/yoss and oh! the bliss. Very pleased. For newcomers, we all love Fly London shoes and boots. They are perfect for back pain. Slightly annoying sizing but if you buy on Amazon free delivery and returns. Anyway these were true to size.

Also went shopping with DH this afternoon to purchase an anniversary ring. Will just say that it has, for the moment taken my mind off my pain. Grin

OP posts:
PavlovtheCat · 21/09/2014 10:07

my blog

It's my wedding anniversary today. We almost didn't make it here. I know there are lot's of posts that I need to read and reply to. I will do that this afternoon when DH is at work. But, my blog is resurrected. I struggled with purpose with it before, as I mostly just bloody moaned. But I am changing tack.

I cannot get over the impact of my disability. I cannot forget how much it has changed me. I felt a loss all over again last week at the festival I went to, for many reasons but largely due to the sheer fucking discrimination that is 'not done deliberately' that I realised I have two choice to make. Bury my head in the sand and wait for me to be fixed. It might happen yet, but if it does I can't go back to before, when i didn't know, didn't think about the impact of the world around me on those less able than me. So, the other choice is to embrace it, and help the thousands of people out there already who are doing what they can to raise awareness and get some more changes.

I am a boring writer. Sorry. If anyone wants to write about their experiences, or has a funny story to say, or something helpful or anything really, I would be very happy to have guest posts. If I can focus this, and collect lots of useful information, we can get some good things out of this. Big changes maybe. Little changes really maybe. A ticket here and there to a charity event with wine, here's hoping Grin

So that's what I am gonna try to make my blog about. About my experiences, good and bad, what needs to change, what is working well. And I will name and shame when needed. As well as name and praise when that's due.

Matildathecat · 21/09/2014 12:25

Pavlov happy! happy anniversary to you both. May it be one of many, many more. I managed my 25th this year, which is hard to believe. It was the first year I'd been married for longer than half my life!

And how did I not know about your blog? It's amazing. I've thought of doing such a thing but although I love writing I don't have the techy skills. It looks very professional and I will undoubtedly be commenting and following. Please don't stop posting here, though. It's you lot on here that get me through the day sometimes.

Hope everyone else is having a good day. I've been a good daughter in law but sadly now lying down and have a fairly solid spasm. Having had a 150 mg sr tramadol earlier plus two full strength cocodamol I'm a bit reluctant to hit the diazepam as I really was hoping to go to the pool later. Ho hum. See how it goes.

OP posts:
PavlovtheCat · 21/09/2014 19:35

matilda oh I won't stop posting here. I have been quiet for a few reasons, but I stopped my blog because I found you lot! I used it to moan, to get things out, sort of cathartic, especially when I could not work and could not move, gave me something to do. But, I don't want to moan all the time so I think I will post less, but with more meaningful posts.

Higher pain here. Magic injection has finally bitten the dust. Well, I am still relatively straight and muscles are not hugely spasming as badly as before, but that's a matter of time. The pain is back. But perspective is needed. I have had a break. I needed it.

Gonna read everything in a bit, but may be more like tomorrow that I reply as DH is coming up for us to watch a film tonight, being our anniversary and all and he will likely think it bloody rude if I MN Grin

Thinking of you all Flowers

PavlovtheCat · 21/09/2014 19:36

matilda also meant to say so sorry about your FIL, you are a fab DIL but remember to look after yourself too. Did you make it to the pool, doubt it if you took the diazepam Grin hope you are feeling better this evening.

Maiziemonkey · 22/09/2014 11:50

hiya all, your blog is fab pavlov, I like the picture, good art. I like your writing style too.
well come to all the newbies on here.
tis a bit problematic using a hottie in summer but now it's a bit cooler I can do it without over-heating. I always take one to bed with me and it eases my backache very well to go to sleep.
going out tonight to karaoke - have avoided it for ages before last monday as I had felt a tad anti-social due to backpain ongoing and being a bit tired by the end of the day. but i really enjoyed it last week- showed me why it is important to keep doing such things.
I think I was in a mental slump since physically I wasnt much worse than before, and not much better now- but I was tired out from the incesssant nature of it and that brought me down. also co-incided with summer hols- which you would think should make me happier but instead I think i have missed my psych course and its ability to lift me out of whatever is bothering me. starting again next week and looking forward to it. plus i am the type of person who needs to know when it is allowed to relax- sort of zen- I need to do things, get them done and then I am able to relax and enjoy it.
sorry to blather on about myself! Smile
re the back extensions- I think it's a complex issue. I was very wary of any position like that and asked the physio about it. She gave alot of reassurance, said hip bones should remain grounded on the floor, and as always dont do anything actually painful. Discomfort ok, not pain. I have done it in yoga class a few times now and while approaching cautiously, I think it has been helpful to me. I would think it's important to do other moves that strengthen the upper back and in my last class we did it a few times, then followed by bridge and the opposite of back flexion (child's pose) and after the class i felt an inch taller as i walked away! the moves felt like they had unkinked a string of beads or suchlike (my spine) and lengthened it. don't know how long it lasts but it felt good- but i did also get a little soreness, makes it tricky to judge what to do and what is beneficial or detrimental and all we can do is try to learn from experience.
what is right for one isnt right for another.
I am straightening myself out several time a day- so hopefully that means i am getting more mindful.
hope you are all having a good day today- some sunshine out there, might be the last sunny day soon. I much prefer summer but I do begin to appreciate other seasons as i get older.
I have been painting with oils a bit and am really enjoying how it is different from watercolour- and so vibrant.

PavlovtheCat · 22/09/2014 23:00

Sorry for not replying to specific posts earlier, but 'hello'! to the newbies on the thread. I will try to be more vocal. I do pop in and read, but been very busy managing trying to have a life (whats that?!), working, children back at school, increased pain, after school stuff, sleep deprivation and the odd fucking huge argument with DH. And so time has been a little scarce to stop long enough to post.

I am here though Grin

PavlovtheCat · 22/09/2014 23:01

and hope all the 'oldies' are doing as well as they can be. Seems like this last week or so has seen an increase in pain for many...

LoonvanBoon · 23/09/2014 09:04

Hi all. The blog looks great, pavlov - have just read the most recent entry & will come back to it later. Sorry you had a tough time at the festival.

Totally agree that it's when you're struggling with "normal" but not everyday activities that this condition really hits you. I think that's when I've felt at my most down. Sitting through a school concert & hardly able to focus on my children's parts because of the pain; trying to watch a bloody film at the cinema; having to stand on a train. It makes me feel quite trapped, to be honest. I feel I make a fuss everywhere I go - changing chairs around, getting up & going for walks in the middle of things, etc. etc.

Quite a lot of pain yesterday & today. Still don't know what to tell the consultant about how I am when I see him on Thursday. I don't want always to be like this. And I certainly don't want to be worse.

Hope everyone has a low-pain day. How's your FIL doing, matilda? Sounds like you're a great support to your PIL - but yes, as maizie said, try to take care of yourself too. Nursing is tough on anyone's back!

ThatBloodyWoman · 23/09/2014 09:11

Sorry to jump in, but wonder if anyone can help -I have long term mild upper back pain from structural problems,but I have what I'm thinking is probably a short term problem with muscle spasms when my body relaxes (ie in bed st night and when first up)
I'm absolutely fine when I get moving, but the spasms are very painful.
I'm not sure if its a pulled muscle, or trapped nerve or what, and I wondered if anyone has got any tips for speeding recovery, as it appears that rest is the least helpful thing!
Thanks, and sorry for butting in.....

Matildathecat · 23/09/2014 10:33

Hello that bloody woman ( great name, sure it's what I'm known as around these parts!)

I'm thinking see a good rehab type physio and get a set of stretches and back mobility exercises. Then do thenWink. Also if you can get a good massage that fab.

And then at night do your stretches then bed with a hottie.

Loon, you sum it up so well. Everything is less nice. Always making a fuss about chairs etc. very hard.

Good news is that FIL now has carers in three times a day. Only started yesterday so keeping fingers crossed.

I'm off on hols with DH and my parents tomorrow so should be resting but instead, of course am busy, busy. Grin

OP posts:
LoonvanBoon · 23/09/2014 10:35

Hi That, & welcome - you're certainly not butting in! Are the spasms in your upper back like the rest of the pain?

Got to confess I don't know much about causes of upper back problems - my problems are bottom of lumbar spine - though I do get muscle spasms in my mid back now that I think must be a knock-on effect from lower down.

Many of us here find heat helps to relax muscles - don't know if you could try holding a hot water bottle to the affected area / sticking on a disposable heat pad in bed? Muscle relaxant drugs, like diazepam, can be very effective, though some GPs are reluctant to prescribe them. Have you discussed this with your GP? Diazepam causes drowsiness so would more use at night than when you're first getting up. Of course alcohol has muscle relaxant properties, too, but again not ideal first thing in the morning!

You may have to do a bit of detective work with a problem like this too. Is it always the same at night, or are some nights worse than others? Is it worse if you've been sitting a lot in the evening / hunching over a screen? There are likely to be exercises that can gently extend your upper back muscles, too, though afraid I'm not sure what's usually recommended for that area.

LoonvanBoon · 23/09/2014 10:37

Cross-posted with matilda - oh yes, massage sounds lovely. Hope the holiday goes well - you deserve a break.

ThatBloodyWoman · 23/09/2014 14:07

Thank you -yes it is a different pain from my longer term problems and it seems to be the same whatever I do, or don't do.I'm hoping it'll be short term and its more to do with 'trauma' than a structural thing, therefore will eventually pass.
I'm being referred for physio -but for my 'other' back ache iyswim.

I think I will try heat.And I'm considering forking out to see a chiropractor if it persists, because it really is unpleasant!

pinkkoala · 24/09/2014 21:22

Can I ask I have bulging disc at l5 and have been told that nerves heal at 1mm a week is this correct also the horrendous leg pain diwn to my foot haseased up to my top of thigh, but the pain in the cheek of my bum and bottom of my back is horrendous, I keep being told about centralisation is this normal.

LoonvanBoon · 25/09/2014 13:47

Hi pinkkoala - I'm assuming you've had an MRI? I've never heard anything quite so specific about the rate of healing, TBH, but it's certainly true that most disc bulges do heal by themselves, given time. Is the 1mm you're referring to shrinkage of the bulge?

I was discussing this with my consultant this morning as I have a prolapse at L5/S1, & he said that well over 90% of disc bulges will heal spontaneously. They can shrink back / dry out, or the body seems to reabsorb some of the disc material - there seems to be some uncertainty re. the actual mechanism of healing - but either way, this relieves pressure on the nerve.

He did say that it varies from one person to the next, though, & didn't quantify the rate of healing. Unfortunately I'm in the minority whose disc prolapse hasn't (yet) sorted itself out.

Centralising of pain is definitely normal & a good sign, indicating less compression / irritation of the nerves going down the leg. The bum pain is hideous, though, I know, so the key thing is making sure you have adequate pain relief while you let your body get on with the healing process. Most of us on this thread have found that combining medication - NSAIDs, pain-killers & sometimes muscle relaxants - is most effective.

The pain isn't just caused by mechanical pressure on the nerve, it can also be a result of chemical inflammation, where an unhealthy disc leaks out bits of its nucleus, & this massively irritates the nerve. Most people with prolapses are suffering from a mixture of mechanical pressure & chemical inflammation, so I don't suppose the rate of shrinkage tells the whole story anyway.

Matildathecat · 25/09/2014 15:02

Not heard the 1mm bit but I believe the severity of the prolapse and nerve compression is partly measured by the distance down your leg the symptoms travel. I've never had centralisation mentioned, either. It's strange how different it is in different areas.

The fact that it is easing is good news. Hope for further improvement and yes, it is slow.

Sorry, I can't remember but are you on gabapentin or pregablin? They do help that buttock and leg pain. Also amytriptiline at night.

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