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Smear tests

203 replies

miriam25 · 30/12/2013 17:54

Hi all,
I seem to have developed a phobia of smear tests - today 10mg of Valium wouldn't even help! I've read about HPV blood tests - has anyone had one or does anyone have any idea where you can get them done?
I've also thought of having a course of hypnotherapy - has this worked for anyone one??
Many thanks

OP posts:
honeybee66 · 31/12/2013 18:46

SUGARCANE- sorry a bit disjointed do you make women aware their intimate gynae/smear details are put on the "openexeter" database to be shared across the NHS including Screening Office and yes cancerscreening.nhs.uk ie the DH offshoot for managing screening? I have asked cancerscreening.nhs.uk and yes there staff can access these intimate records. It was Richard Winder, Deputy Director of the NHS Cancer Screening who confirmed to me that their staff can access these records

The worry is with care.data that HSCIC (Health Social Care Information Centre) will sell off smear data as Cameron wants to make data available to the pharmaceutical industry.

The other worrying thing is Screening data is covered by Sec 251 of the NHS Act and can be used/sold by the NHS. The NHS do not like term sold NHS England term is "administrative charge" lol. Patients can opt out but to opt out patients need to know about this in the first place!

specialsubject · 31/12/2013 18:53

this thread could only happen in the entitled UK.

if you don't want a smear test, fine. Saves resources for those who do. Please also register your refusal of any cancer treatment. Same reason.

all treatment of adults should be voluntary. As long as you are also prepared to take ALL the consequences.

no-one says that smear tests are infallible. Nothing in real life is except the grim reaper.

blaineyboy · 31/12/2013 18:54

Yes undue pressure I agree that the screening is limited
In what in can do and that women definately need to be aware of this.
My mother was extremely unlucky although im not sure
thats the right word, in that her only symptom was extreme fatigue.
I think sometimes its the luck of the draw in who's actually doing the smear test as to how uncomfortable it is, ive had it done and barely noticed it, then again have literally leapt off trolley and refused to have it continue because the nurse was so rough.. Was going to offer her a davy lamp cos im pretty sure she thought she was digging for coal.

UnduePressure · 31/12/2013 19:33

OneHolyCow the OP has said on this thread that she is having to take valium in order to have a smear. I actually find this alarming too.

If women are taking valium, in order to under go a screening procedure this is something that should be factored into all research in terms of the side effects and what is suggested to the OP.

As far as I am aware, no study has even considered the side effects of needing valium to have a smear. Yet it does seem to be fairly common going by the threads on MN and is clearly being actively encouraged.

I think it is perfectly valid to raise the points on this thread as any. The OP is anxious, there are various ways to alleviate that anxiety. This includes raising the controversial idea that, maybe the cons of going for screening include anxiety and the adverse effect this has on women. In some cases, there may be women who are actually better NOT to participate. This may be rare or unusual but it still should be something that should be discussed. Yet no one is prepared to raise this as an option, due to the emotion of the subject.

In her book McCartney stresses that she wouldn't go for screening, but still encourages and highlights the importance of having a smear if you had certain symptoms. She certainly isn't against smears in certain circumstances, and stresses this is life saving too. How many women who go for screening could answer what the symptoms of cervical cancer are? Even if they have tested negative, it doesn't mean they won't develop it, as blaineyboy's tragic post highlights. We need to be informed beyond simply being shepherded like sheep into a programme and to widen our horizons about a variety of approaches to reflect that women react in different ways and perhaps prefer to accept different risks.

All medical choices are about balancing risks and side effects; there are occasions where, although it might go against the grain and the preferred advice, but we should still stop and think about the alternatives and some of these issues from a slightly different perceptive.

There is never a RIGHT answer in medicine, only ever a 'best fit' solution for an individual. No one should be judged for making the 'wrong' decision.

In reference to phobias, they are particularly difficult things to address; the OP may want a smear but it is perfectly possible that part of her fear could also be about having an over inflated fear about the possible results and its possible that by saying the risk could be lower than she is lead to believe by the scary advertising, that might also help alleviate some of her fears enough too, in order to have a smear! I know this sounds a bit crazy, but targeting women in a certain way, may be part of the problem too and we should be smart enough to consider all possibilities.

TBH, I think the OP really need to give thought to exactly what her fears are in this respect. Is it the examination, is it the way she is treated by staff, is it the fear that she might find out there is an issue? Get to the bottom of that, and I think it might really help as she'll know exactly what she's really bothered about.

Yet all that has been offered to the OP by a great many posters is 'suck it up, it might save your life'. That doesn't listen to the OP anymore than anything honey may have said. It is REALLY relevant to challenge this response to a degree and to put the OP in a position where she feels like her fears are listened to, respected and not just belittled.

I think the fact the OP is open to hypnotherapy is great, and if it makes her feel better to go for it regardless of what anyone else on this thread says. Fear is a very personal thing and affects different people in very different ways.

KaFayOLay · 31/12/2013 19:34

honey - genuine question.

What happened to make you such a radical about smears?

UnduePressure · 31/12/2013 19:38

KaFay - genuine question

Why do you have to have something happen to you to be regarded as a 'radical' about smears?

Raising questions doesn't necessarily make you a radical. It makes you someone who is questioning the system, not necessarily the procedure.

Are you suggesting that Dr Margaret McCartney is also a radical?

honeybee66 · 31/12/2013 19:44

Nothing radical at all. I am COMPLETELY and TOTALLY sick to the back teeth of the NHS not respecting my wishes. I worked in NHS for 30 years too.

As UnduePressure says do you regard Dr Margaret McCartney a practising GP is radical too?

eurochick · 31/12/2013 19:51

blaney I'm very sorry for your loss. your dr sounds very ill informed. In more than 99% of cases, cervical cancer is caused by the HPV virus, rather than an hereditary link.

sugarcane good on you. I'm glad that the screening programme exists and I am happy to be part of it. I am not happy about the way women who do not want to be part of it are badgered. I think it should be something that is offered to women, without an agenda or target. You sound like you have it spot on. Sadly many in the NHS do not share your attitude.

KaFayOLay · 31/12/2013 19:52

I'm trying to understand what drew you towards Dr M's book.

I can't see it as a book you would just stumble upon.

LEMoncehadacatcalledSANTA · 31/12/2013 19:54

It was a doctor that linked mmr to autism, that has since been shown to be pretty ropey bit of research. Just because someone is a dr and writes a book doesn't make them right. This is putting women's lives at risk. Reading a quacks book does not make an informed choice.

LEMoncehadacatcalledSANTA · 31/12/2013 19:59

If you dont want a smear dont have one. In this area if you dont have one after a certain amount of reminders you are removed from the program. Not hounded. This sort of thing boils my piss. Saying my dd's read this sort of bullshit and decide not to have smears because of it? It is a sickening thought?

honeybee66 · 31/12/2013 20:01

Easy KaFay Margaret is well known in the medical profession I worked in the NHS for 30 years. I would buy anything she writes. She has a mini fan club going for challenging the system.

She is a well known GP especially if you are an informed patient or are interested in the NHS or these issues. She also writes on health issues for the Financial Times.

shewhowines · 31/12/2013 20:01

Some great theoretical points have been made. I agree with some of them. But at the end of the day, do you want the theory or the practice?Screening saves lives. As many people as possible should have them. If fear persuades more people to have one, then so be it.

Chances are I would probably be dead in a short time without my recent smear. I would have argued the same before my cancer diagnosis, but I think with smear tests, the end really does justify the means.

It's your choice, and I agree that should be respected, but I think it is right to encourage people to do something they might be wary of.

We obviously disagree but I am worried that you will put people off having what could be a life saving screen. Nobody has not listened to the op, or belittled her fear. You can have sympathy but still want to give her the best chance of living a long and healthy life.

Theory or practice?

RedToothBrush · 31/12/2013 20:06

Erm... for me?

Recommendations on Amazon. If you like Ben Goldacre, you might also like...

And have you read book? Or are you just calling her a quack because she's questioned something?

Have a read, THEN decide if she's a quack please. Some of you sound like outraged Daily Mail readers who complain about a tv programme they never saw based on what they read in the paper.

Honestly, she has same very, very valid points. The issues about Smear Screening is definitely the most controversial and is the one that has drawn the most attention for that reason and I totally appreciate why others might not support it.

Her biggest point, is more about the way things are being pushed and how this undermines patient confidence and doesn't give GPs the room or space to judge how to approach a patient because they are controlled by tick boxes and targets.

LEMoncehadacatcalledSANTA · 31/12/2013 20:07

If she dissuades people from health screening she is a quack. I dont care who she writes for.

RedToothBrush · 31/12/2013 20:08

Nice and balanced there then...

Nice and open minded...

honeybee66 · 31/12/2013 20:11

Interesting Shew are you saying that patients should not get/be denied the full story so they can make an informed choice? This mean consent is not legal valid and smear test could be claimed to be assault.

What if a patient decides to have a smear and suffers the consequences from over treatment and ends up in hospital for days with bleeding and infection and needs further surgery.

Yes it happened to a doctor she wrote about in the BMJ (British Medical Journal.

This could result in an expensive legal claim for the NHS.

The OP needs to make her own informed decision as UnduePressure says.

LEMoncehadacatcalledSANTA · 31/12/2013 20:12

It bothers me because people have genuine fears about havng smears. These people need to be reassured not told they aren't necessary. Hopefully, one day it can be detected with a blood test or hpv vaccination will see it on its way. Until then people sjould be persuaded to have them not put off so someone can get a few more column inches.

honeybee66 · 31/12/2013 20:16

Lemon read the book before making uninformed comments and at the back of the book she lists all the research.

Margaret is now also a Council/Board member at the RCGP (Royal College of General Practitioners) that helps set standards standards and training in General Practice so she is hardly a quack!

KaFayOLay · 31/12/2013 20:22

I have read about Henrietta Lacks, that is an interesting read.

I am happy that NHS screening saved my sisters life and that screening kicked my twin and I into annual smears. I don't think any book can change the evidence that my sister's life was saved.

KaFayOLay · 31/12/2013 20:25

Oh and to answer whether Dr M is a radical, I couldn't possibly comment without reading her book.

SinisterSal · 31/12/2013 20:27

Screening saves lives. Mine, for eg. Go if you possibly can.

If getting letters distresses you so much I would suggest getting treatment for that too.

It's 5 mins every three years, sure the risk of cancer is quite low but so is the 'cost' to the individual.

Throw the letter in the bin and say firmly and politely No Thank You when offered. Jesus people.

honeybee66 · 31/12/2013 20:28

KaFay that is fine that is your choice and I respect that however women need to be respected whatever choices they make not hounded by the NHS as Sugarcane the Practice Nurse confirmed happens and as I found out myself. We need the full unbiased facts so we can make our informed decisions.

blaineyboy · 31/12/2013 20:30

Eurochick thankyou, and yes you are quite right my (former) doctor was very much ill informed about a number of things I feel, hence why he is my former doctor.
Op I hope u find some method of relaxation or hypnotherapy that helps overcome your problem.

HombreLobo · 31/12/2013 20:30

On the subject of unnecessary treatment, I was told that the protocol now is to test for HPV before treating abnormal cells. No HPV = no treatment.

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