Refusing to vaccinate your child

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For a while now I have been researching the dangers of vaccines and all the cases of children dying or being made sick after having a vaccine, all of which is not reported in mainstream media. How do you feel about vaccines? I've heard that the medical profession encourages pregnant women to get the flu vaccine, and that babies are vaccinated at birth. I've also researched stories where parents have been reported to social services by a spiteful doctor or nurse, simply for refusing their child a vaccine. It seems parents are losing their rights. What do you think?

I really can't believe that parents are going to be so dogmatic in their beliefs that they would refuse a tetanus injection if their child injured themselves in a field on rusty barbed wire.

I think some people have to see the horror of these diseases first hand on order to understand the value of vaccination. I am lucky enough never to have seen a case of tetanus, polio, diptheria, etc but I would bet my bottom dollar that all the anti-vax mothers would be fighting to get their children vaccinated if they saw a child they knew dying of one of them.

Some people don't have the imagination to understand the damage these dreadful disease can wreak.

Just a couple of points....The whooping cough vaccine doesn't provide long term protection so many older children/teenagers/adults are no longer immune to it - the reason why there have been more and more outbreaks recently. I think it's important that people realise this so that they can consider it as a possibility if their child has the symptoms rather than assuming that if they have been vaccinated there is no chance they can contract WC and therefore risking spreading it to the more vulnerable (eg. young babies)

Also, the whole 'rusty' thing means nothing irt tetanus. It's tetanus spores found in soil getting into wounds and not being cleaned properly that can cause tetanus. They need anaerobic conditions to survive so deep puncture wounds are ideal. I believe there are a few question marks around the tetanus vaccine at the moment and how many are actually needed/safe to give over a certain period of time. In case anyone is interested, there is a single tetanus vaccine available called Tetanol Pur.

I wasn't suggesting the rusty barbed wire caused it- just a likely way to get the injury that opens the person to infection from the soil.

It would really depend on the injury... I've had plenty of barbed wire scrapes/cuts that wouldn't be tetanus risks.

I wouldn't run the risk with my DCs. If they have been vaccinated you don't have to worry about the likelihood.
If it was a very bad wound and very dirty I would assume that the responsible parent would put their DC before theory and get the injection.

See, that's the problem, false security. You still have to worry and they could still be at risk. I would hope that a responsible parent would know that and wouldn't just assume that because their child has been vaccinated that they don't have to think about it.

However it is a heck of a lot safer than having no protection at all.

wouldn't just assume that because their child has been vaccinated that they don't have to think about it.

I'm sure exotic doesn't go around letting her children lacerate themselves with large pieces of dirty metal because she thinks they are safe from Tetanus.

A responsible parent does what is in their power to reduce the risks of their children being made seriously ill be preventable diseases. Tetanus is very rarely seen in the UK because most people are lucky enough to have been vaccinated.

If I lived in a society where vaccination wasn't available and these diseases were rife I would worry dreadfully about my children catching them. Luckily my children and the general population here are vaccinated and the diseases are incredibly rare. Therefore the chances of them catching them and becoming seriously ill are vanishingly small and I do not worry about it.

I'm not sure how the fact that I don't worry about it can be a problem. Would they be safer if I worried more?

justthevax.blogspot.co.uk/2010/12/tetanus-in-unvaccinated-teen.html

...In the first post the mom describes that her 13 year old, unvaccinated son sustained a knee injury (1.5 cm deep, dirty, sandy) and because he had not been vaccinated, she allowed his GP to "vaccinate him against tetanus". Two days later, the boy has problems opening his jaw, neck and jaw hurt when he tries to eat or brush teeth. She fears vaccine damage and wonders whether this will pass alone. She is also afraid to take her son to the doctor, because he is "vaccine fanatic"...

Read the whole thing - not because I want to promote my blog, but because it is the only English source for this case.

Well explained, Goldmandra.

Please stop with the 'dirty metal lacerations' - it is not the only way to contract tetabus! In fact, large wounds are probably less prone to tetanus because you are more likely to have them treated properly. Vaccinated people can still contract tetanus - it is more common in older people and people with circulation problems (eg diabetics) Also, other people being vaccinated against it has nothing to do with whether or not you get it yourself.

Catherina, I remember you posting that article before. Iirc the doctor didn't clean the wound properly and then stitched it up, creating the perfect anaerobic environment for the tetanus spores to thrive. Also goes to show you that the vaccine isn't a 'get out of jail free card'.

You do seem to like splitting hairs, bumbleymummy.

What is 'splitting hairs' exactly? Pointing out that it's not just rusty metal that is a tetanus risk or that you shouldn't stitch up a dirty wound?

Vaccinated people can still contract tetanus

Vaccinated people can still contract all these awful diseases. However vaccination reduces the risk and the severity in most cases and that's what parents are signing up for when they have their children vaccinated.

Seatbelts aren't 100% effective but they dramatically reduce the probability of a child being hurt in a collision. Responsible parents use them.

The fact that vaccination isn't 100% effective is news to nobody and it is no justification for turning down the opportunity to protect children.

Would you prefer that the whole population of the UK ceased to be vaccinated and polio, diptheria, smallpox, measles, etc all became endemic again here?

Are you addressing that question to me goldmandra?

I haven't told anyone not to vaccinate. I just dislike the assumption that vaccinated = no chance of contracting the disease/don't need to think/worry about it. It may reduce the risk but it doesn't eliminate the risk. For some children the vaccine does not work at all so they have no protection despite being vaccinated. Best to be aware of that IMO rather than believing that there is no chance of them getting it (as so many people do). "Oh it can't be x, s/he's had her jabs" etc.

As for endemic disease if we stopped vaccinating. There may be as many cases as there were pre-vaccine but thankfully there would not be anywhere near as many people dying or being disabled from them thanks to our other medical advances. FWIW things like tetanus were pretty rare even before vaccinations became widespread.

Splitting hairs is using terminology to gloss over the simple fact that responsible parents will make sure that their DC is up to date on tetanus jabs if they happen to have a wound in contact with soil.
We can all be aware that it isn't a magic prevention- it doesn't stop common sense saying that it is better to try and prevent.
I have discussed it with my mother, born in early 1920s,and she thinks it sad that people have no understanding of what it was like with epidemics in her childhood - or they are just dismissive with comments about better nutrition etc. My mother's standard of nutrition was a lot better than many today- it didn't make her immune.
I can assure you that if your DC is seriously ill, unfortunately I have had that experience, you just go for whatever medical science offers- you don't witter on with 'he might be OK without'. It means that at least he is still with us an adult- maybe he would without but I wasn't prepared to risk it.
I am not prepared to risk wounds in contact with soil without protection.

can you still get tetanus jabs? I last had one 30 years ago and its not been mentioned since. As far as I'm aware they last ten years.

Yes, you can still get them twisty. Although there are now questions about how many you can get in a lifetime without it actually working against you. The ones you get on the NHS are usually bundled in with a few others (usually diptheria and pertussis) but you can get single ones privately.

Exotic, I don't think people are saying better nutrition makes you immune - it just means you are healthier and more able to fight off the illness. Also, measles deaths started declining rapidly after antibiotics/the NHS became available in the 1940s, before vaccination came along. It really isn't being dismissive to point out that other things have had an impact on our health aside from vaccination.

Of course other things have impact- they work along side and not instead.

They were working quite well in bringing the number of measles deaths down all by themselves...then the vaccine comes in and if you decide not to have it/delay it etc your child is ' going to die' in some people's opinion.

I had measles aged 5yrs, without vaccination and it wasn't pleasant. My children had the vaccine and didn't have to suffer measles or the complications. They have not had it, we don't know anyone who had it. This is in direct contrast to my childhood where it was expected and it was a lottery as to how badly you got it.

Although there are now questions about how many you can get in a lifetime without it actually working against you.

What do you mean by that bumbly? How do they think they work against you? The advice of how many you have and when has certainly changed over the years:you use to need a booster after 10 years and now you don't apparently.

Re Caterina's story. I thought that giving the tetanus jab after the wound was infected was pointless, and that they used some other treatment. So what does this sad story tell us other than that there are some naive mothers and some incompetent Drs around?

They may have been 'working quite well' to bring the measles deaths down, but then they had the vaccine which worked more than 'quite well'.
Until we had the present scare which some people insist on saying didn't happen, although I know for sure that my area had cases that didn't get the publicity that Swansea got.

My post was to do with tetanus injections, I should add.

there is certainly now a limit as to how many tetanus jabs are advised in a lifetime.

I reached that limit by the age of 24!

I was bitten by a god a few years back - not very nasty, but bad enough, and a couple of deep puncture wounds.

The nurse I saw was extremely reluctant to give me a tetanus booster (have to say, I felt the same), as I had already reached my limit (can't recall now, but think it is 4 or 5). instead, we opted for good wound care, and keeping an eye on things.