Refusing to vaccinate your child

[Organic100]

For a while now I have been researching the dangers of vaccines and all the cases of children dying or being made sick after having a vaccine, all of which is not reported in mainstream media. How do you feel about vaccines? I've heard that the medical profession encourages pregnant women to get the flu vaccine, and that babies are vaccinated at birth. I've also researched stories where parents have been reported to social services by a spiteful doctor or nurse, simply for refusing their child a vaccine. It seems parents are losing their rights. What do you think?

OP the study I posted below (which you've ignored as it proves you wrong) wasn't in the 'main steam media'. It was published in The Lancet, a peer reviewed science journal. As far as I can see it wasn't even featured in any newspapers as vaccinations saving lives isn't really news as it's so common.

I will ask again, please can you post links to where you have found the studies you mention. I have searched most respected peer reviewed science journals and can't find any. If you want to read more on the study I posted Google 'Helsinki Hib meningitis' and the Lancet is one of the results on the first page.

X post with lurcio. OP seems to be a lost cause!

Cripes lurcio OP is a proper mentalist! Thanks ofr the heads up - no point trying rational argument then .

Wow, scary. And the other thread is truly bonkers.
I can't stand the attitude that doctors are all secretly evil psychopaths intent on achieving some bizarre secret agenda, like the plot of utopia (recently on tv).
Medicine is a science. It is based on fact and rigorous research. It works. When I get a headache, a paracetamol takes it away. When I get period pains, ibuprofen does the trick. When I am breathless, my inhaler sorts me out. And when I get vaccinated, I am safe from the disease in question. No conspiracy, pretty straightforward really.

Doctorhappy, I am pro vax but I find your approach pretty naive and simplistic.

Vaccines do not offer 100% protection at all. I am rather worried my dcs will get mumps as adults even tho they've had the MMR. Mumps as an adult is awful but often asymptomatic in children.

Pharmaceutical companies are not at all concerned about health unless it makes them big money.

A little bit of cynical questioning is always important instead of just accepting everything as a given.

Useful rule of thumb: anyone using the phrase 'mainstream media' is talking nonsense. hth.

If these medical nut jobs want to inject my children with a toxic chemical which has killed thousands of children (which isn't reported in mainstream media), then their evidence that vaccines do more good than harm needs to be spectacular.

Well you probably give your children the odd drink of water. You might even take them to a swimming pool.

Water is toxic if large quantities are ingested, it can kill. It also kills thousands of children and adults each year in other ways.

Remember the earthquake and tsunami in Japan a couple of years ago? Most people were killed by water, or a combination of water and other substances.

OP, people like you put back any decent discussion on vaccinations far more effectively than someone painted blue with a feather up their arse waving a placard shouting 'vaccines will make you hatch alien babies'

DrHappy, medicine is not a very good science. Apart from the BCG vaccine there have been no randomised double blind placebo-control trials of any vaccine. I think there should be. On the recent measles outbreak report forms no-one was asked if they'd previously been vaccinated.
That is poor science.
Yes, I am a scientist. And as the other poster said, the mumps vaccine is spectacuarly ineffective. ds (20) recently had a blood test for immunity. None to mumps despite the vaccine. I will pay if he decides to be re-vaccinated because this is not a good age for the damn thing to wear off.

So......

....if you won't allow your children to be vaccinated because you don't trust the 'science' used to develop and administer them.....

....if your children become seriously ill, will you allow doctors to save their lives using medication developed using the same scientific principles?

that aimed at me? I didnt say I was anti-vax. number 1 had another MMR yesterday and a hep B to fulfil university requirements despite having had all childhood vaxes. I just pointed out the lack of rigorous science in many vaccination studies gives ammo to people like the OP and also annoys decent scientists. I mean, how hard would it have been during the recent measles outbreak to record whether those who had measles had been previously vaccinated and how many times? That would give us a clearer picture of vaccine efficacy plus how long it lasts (age of sufferer and date of vaccine). But no, this basic and vital piece of information was not recorded. d'uh.
Back when the Polio vaccine was live a friend who is a GP rang up the Dept of Health to find out exactly how long the virus was excreted (for swimming pool information) and no-one actually knew. Because no-one has tested poo in large studies to find out. So a basic guess of 6 weeks was given. But the Dept of Health had no real idea or studies. D'uh.

Oh, and before you think all medicine is scientifically sound. Its not. One of the best treaments for childhood epilepsy is the ketogenic diet. No-one actually knows how it works, from the pioneering John Hopkins Research Hospital donw (neuroscience is my field). But it does in roughly 70% of intractable to drugs epilepsy. But its used as a treatment for intractable epilepsy because who cares, it works.

Sorry twisty, that was aimed at the OP.

I agree that the Dept of Health clearly should have an idea of how long Polio is excreted post-vaccination but perhaps they already have enough information on the efficacy of the MMR and feel no need to record more data.

I imagine that they have also carried out some studies, if only to verify the efficacy of the ketogenic diet, if they are recommending it as a treatment. I'm sure there are plenty of other treatments out there that are known to be effective, even if how isn't fully understood but I'm sure you'd know more about that than I do.

I know that no vaccination gives 100% protection, that there are children lost to reactions and that medical researchers and practitioners do make mistakes. I really shouldn't let people like the OP get to me. I just worry about children missing out on vital protection because their parents decide there's no smoke without fire.

OP

Ask your GP or vaccine surgery for the NHS booklet about vaccines.
It outlines clearly all of the possible risks and dangers associated with each vaccine and then weighs those risks up with what the consequences of your child getting this illness could be.

Of course there are pros and cons to vaccinations and nobody wants to put their child at risk. The majority of people go for vaccination but there is an ongoing debate because there are indeed risks either way.
I vaccinated my child, but I made an informed choice and know the risks.
It's just lucky (and some might say irresponsible) if you choose not vaccinate and your child never catches anything serious. Or perhaps it does but is lucky and copes without serious side effects. If you vaccinate, you potentially protect others who might've had serious side effects.

The laymans pamphlet on vaccines outlines risk, lists harmful chemicals etc. If you are not a chemist then it will not help you make an informed decision though, you just have to weigh up the risks like the NHS or WHO have done on our behalf.
I also hate 'sheep' but have decided to vaccinate my children.

Trip trap...

Being kind one could say the OP has a little too much time on their hands and has some curious opinions. The thread above is well worth a read, it is very funny.

OP, go and do the secondary school science that you clearly totally ignored. Then go and do a five year medical degree. Pass that and we might possibly believe that you are talking out of the correct orifice.

You should be quite ashamed of your scientific ignorance - please do something to correct your lack of knowledge.

BTW are you vaccinated?

ORGANIC100 I totally agree with you, vaccine are bad, full of poisons and orrible stuff, our body doesn't need them. lots people should wake up........

Oh absolutely!

Much better for your children to catch Polio, Tetanus, Measles, Meningitis....

they can catch that even if they are vaccinated...

Luckily for my children, I am awake to the realities of the scientific debate and I understand how vaccinating them dramatically reduces the probability that they will become serious ill or die from those diseases.

woke up at 4:30 this morning - still think that vaccines are brilliant, what now

Sadly people have such short memories and filter out the fact that children regularly died from those diseases. I have seen school log books from Victorian times and when there was an epidemic schools closed for weeks. The whole school building was then disinfected and when the children came back some were missing- they were dead.
No doubt OP will trot out the usual rubbish that it wouldn't happen now with better nutrition, sanitation etc but a, the area I was reading about had that anyway and b, killer diseases attack anyone- it just happens that you might, possibly, have a better chance of survival with good nutrition and sanitation.

They may well catch them if they are vaccinated, 123mon, but they will have the mild form. My brother and I had whooping cough so mildly that it was not much more than a bad cold but my baby brother(too young for the vaccination) had it very badly- I can still remember the horror of it. Why on earth would you put your child through that when you can prevent it?

I really can't believe that parents are going to be so dogmatic in their beliefs that they would refuse a tetanus injection if their child injured themselves in a field on rusty barbed wire.