Refusing to vaccinate your child

[Organic100]

For a while now I have been researching the dangers of vaccines and all the cases of children dying or being made sick after having a vaccine, all of which is not reported in mainstream media. How do you feel about vaccines? I've heard that the medical profession encourages pregnant women to get the flu vaccine, and that babies are vaccinated at birth. I've also researched stories where parents have been reported to social services by a spiteful doctor or nurse, simply for refusing their child a vaccine. It seems parents are losing their rights. What do you think?

Sorry Catherina, missed your earlier post. I think we are thanking the doctors for mopping up the mess of the first doctor who didn't clean a wound properly!

It was in response to a direct question, Gold. Would those diseases being endemic be as bad as it was back then? No, it wouldn't. If vaccines had never been developed we would still be in a much better place now than we were back then.

My question was;
Would you prefer that the whole population of the UK ceased to be vaccinated and polio, diptheria, smallpox, measles, etc all became endemic again here?

Does that mean yes, you would prefer vaccination programmes to cease?

The whole population has ceased to be vaccinated against smallpox and it has not become endemic again.

Why is that any of your business relevant Jo?

No, Gold, I did not say that. I just said that if they did cease, it would not be the same situation as it was all those years ago. I don't mind if people vaccinate their children or not. It's their decision. I don't agree with it being forced on people and I don't agree with scaremongering tactics/guilt trips and bullying to coerce people into it though.

Good point LaV. Also worth noting that scarlet fever was a major killer at the start of the last century and there are very few cases of it around now and it is nowhere near as risky as it was - without vaccination.

"For a while now I have been researching the dangers of vaccines and all the cases of children dying or being made sick after having a vaccine"

Well, yes quite.

Have the researched the dangers of diphtheria, tetanus, whooping cough, polio, Haemophilusinfluenzae type b, pneumococcal
infection, meningitis C, measles, mumps, rubella?

Can you tell me for example the chances of dying or having serious complications for each of the above?

If you haven't done this research, why not?

If you really wanted to find out about the relative danger of two courses of action e.g. vaccinating and not vaccinating, you would research both sides. That you (so obviously) haven't speaks volumes IMO.

Do some proper research (try looking at actual medical papers rather than Natural News), please.

No, Gold, I did not say that. I just said that if they did cease, it would not be the same situation as it was all those years ago. I don't mind if people vaccinate their children or not. It's their decision. I don't agree with it being forced on people and I don't agree with scaremongering tactics/guilt trips and bullying to coerce people into it though.

OK but you are coming across as quite anti-vax. I think people need to be reminded that these disease are still around and not that far away there are some children dying from them. This only doesn't happen to our children because of the vaccination programme. Yes more would survive in this country but far more would die than are damaged by vaccination.

The whole population has ceased to be vaccinated against smallpox and it has not become endemic again.

Isn't that because the vaccination programme has wiped it out worldwide? I have a feeling that it only exists in labs now and when someone did contract it where my mother worked when I was a child there was talk of us needing to be vaccinated.

"The whole population has ceased to be vaccinated against smallpox and it has not become endemic again."

Um yes, that's because it was wiped out by the vaccine!

Catherina "Fact is that if that boy had had the 5 tetanus shots he would have gotten on the German schedule, it is very unlikely he'd have developed tetanus... certainly mum should thank those doctors in Munich for mopping up the damage of her ill informed decision(s)."

My 2 DDs have been vaccinated exactly according to German guidelines and I've just had a look at their vaccination booklets (Impfpass). There are 4 basic tetanus vaccinations between the ages of 3 months and 2 years (as part of the 5-in-1 or now 6-in-1 package), then a booster (along with diptheria) at around 6 or 7, and another DT booster at 11 or 12. There's a note in DD1's booklet that she's due her next tetanus in 2019, so 10 years after the last. So if the boy Catherina mentions had been fully vaccinated he would have had 6 shots by the age of 12. Which presumably would keep him pretty safe for a long time.

The Steiner schools round here tend to be full of the kind of parent writing on that anti-vac thread. The herd immunity in those schools must be pretty piss-poor. It's one of the reasons why, even though we live in a fairly MC district, it has one of the highest rates of infectious diseases (and complications thereof).

Again 'anti-vax' because I don't come on and say something along the lines of 'we'd all be dead without vaccines, dead I tell you! You are an evil, worthless mother for even considering not vaccinating your child." Sigh...

Do you know how many children are damaged by vaccination? It's difficult to find out considering that reactions are extremely under reported. Children not dying is not 'only' due to vaccination. As I pointed out earlier, deaths from these diseases were declining rapidly prior to the introduction if the vaccines. There are a lot of other factors that come into play in developing countries where children are still dying of these diseases.

Vaccination wasn't the only thing that wiped out smallpox - it disappeared in countries that didn't have large scale vaccine programs too.

Bumblymummy, that is one of the most ridiculous things I've ever heard!

Hello bumbley :) are you being patient and smiley, I sense that you are :)

www.who.int/csr/disease/smallpox/en/

Lucky that diseases can be eradicated without 95 per cent herd immunity then, as proved by smallpox. Hurrah. Now perhaps people can stop mithering the ones who don't want to join in.

Boosiehs - that doesn't tell you the extent of the outbreaks in various countries nor which ones had comprehensive vaccination programmes.

If it did : countries A,B & C had endemic small pox, started vaccinating and it was eliminated vs.

D,E,F had endemic smallpox, no vaccination programme and it's still there - that would be very strong evidence that vaccination was the sole factor in the elimination of small pox. As it stands, it's an assertion of what they think.

Last natural case in Somalia? One of the poorest countries in the world, with the problems of poor sanitation, poor health, poor access to medical treatment which are factors which encourage the spread of disease.

Boosieh, have you heard of variola minor? It was a milder form of smallpox that gave immunity to the more severe form - various major. The 'surveillance/containment strategy' also played quite a large part.

Variola* major

V interesting CDC paper I'm just looking at.

You do realise tht surveillance/containment program was vaccinating everyone in the primary and secondary "ring" around the identified case? Not just luck. Targeting vaccination in areas where mass vaccination was extremely difficult.

Herd immunity for smallpox is actually in the 90 something% range.

Variola minor was a far far less common illness. Not sure how it's really relevant as variola major was the illness killing people.

Have a read.

www.bt.cdc.gov/agent/smallpox/training/overview/pdf/eradicationhistory.pdf

Danke Nullius - and yes, the Salzburg Steiner school outbreak is still the most impressive I have seen recorded in recent history (school population ~300, vaccination coverage ~20%, one case of measles imported led to 172 cases in 3 weeks, all in that school).

I agree with Bunbaker- I was also born in 1950s and think that younger parents are just too complacent because they have not seen the diseases. I remember that you always had children in calipers who had suffered from polio- my children have never seen it.
Measles affected my eyesight.
We do not want to go back to it.

Bossiehs it's nice that you believe 95 per cent or even 90 per cent herd immunity was achieved through smallpox vaccination globally. I don't.

Why do people always say the diseases have been forgotten? The problem for the over-enthusiasts is that people do indeed remember the diseases, for many of us had them - in fact most of us had them - and we know very well the narrative is not the one we're sold.

Crumbled walnuts.

I haven't said that herd immunity was achieved. I have jut quoted the number or herd immunity to be achieved.

I believe, in common with most of the world, that the smallpox disease was eradicated using the vaccine, first in the developed world, then through endemic countries in south america, Africa and Asia. using tactics of mass vaccination and surveillance/containment.

Probably you were not born in 1950s Crumbledwalnuts.