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New Published Study Verifies Andrew Wakefield’s Research on Autism!

217 replies

chocchild · 04/08/2013 19:56

Has anybody come across this in the news? Maybe it's not newsworthy enough! healthimpactnews.com/2013/new-published-study-verifies-andrew-wakefields-research-on-autism-again/

OP posts:
Zideq · 05/09/2013 13:15

The title thread is "New Published Study Verifies Andrew Wakefield?s Research on Autism" you brought the Walker-Smith appeal into the argument as some sort of exoneration of Wakefield my response is even with the Walker-Smith rulling being taken as you have read you are left with a litany of evidences to beat Wakefield with.

Beachcomber · 05/09/2013 13:24

Actually, my point is a little more subtle than that.

I asked;

So I ask posters here a) what specifically do you consider Wakefield to have done wrong and b) does the result of the appeal by Professor Walker-Smith affect how you answer question a. ?

Which nobody seems to have answered. Or at least not in their own words.

My above question about ethics committee references may shed some light on why I ask question b)

Zideq · 05/09/2013 13:28

I have answered even if I accept your reading of the "verdict" Wakefield is guilty of a litany of other things including being paid to conduct the study by solicitors representing parents who believed their children had been harmed by MMR....

Beachcomber · 05/09/2013 13:34

I don't think you know what my reading of the Walker-Smith appeal is. I haven't stated it.

Being paid to conduct a study as a medical expert for legal purposes is not a crime BTW, nor is it misconduct. So it is rather silly to accuse anyone of being 'guilty' of such a thing.

Beachcomber · 05/09/2013 13:37

And which study do you mean? Which study are you referring to in your above accusation of Wakefield?

If you would be so good as to answer my question about ethical references it might help this discussion have better clarity. It feels rather fumbling around just now, I think we need specifics!

Zideq · 05/09/2013 19:36

"Being paid to conduct a study as a medical expert for legal purposes is not a crime BTW, nor is it misconduct. So it is rather silly to accuse anyone of being 'guilty' of such a thing"

Pedantic much, you know full well the context of this as he was charged for professional misconduct.

Crumbledwalnuts · 05/09/2013 20:46

Hello, I am here. There's no way I'm staying , I just got back from work and now I'm getting in a very long bath. Sorry I know I should respond. Going to say hello to my husband instead. Have more comments but will have to wait.

Beachcomber · 05/09/2013 20:54

I'm afraid I don't know what you are getting at. You are really going to have to be more specific in your accusations.

At the moment your posts just look like things you have picked up from blogs and opinion pieces such as the one you posted by anonymous blogger Orac.

Pointing out that it is not a crime to act as a medical expert for a legal case or conduct a study to provide legal evidence is not pedantic. It is pointing out very basic facts. I know what I'm talking about and it appears to me that you don't and are just parroting things you have read.

Or at least that is the conclusion I come to due to your lack of response to my very straightforward question about the ethical clearance references which formed an integral and highly pertinent aspect of the GMC fitness to practice hearings concerning both Walker-Smith and Wakefield.

Beachcomber · 05/09/2013 21:03

Hey Crumblewalnuts. Enjoy your bath and definitely say hello to husband rather than waste time on here! There is nothing terribly enlightening going on. Hope you are having Wine in bath...

Zideq · 05/09/2013 21:29

As I have already stated if we accept that medical clearances weren't required due to treatment and not research etc , Wakefield would still have been struck off by the GMC.

Beachcomber · 05/09/2013 23:08

What for?

LaVolcan · 05/09/2013 23:47

What for?

Because they needed a scapegoat to blame when their badly thought out vaccine policy didn't go according to plan?

No doubt some one will come on and tell me that Governments are as pure as the driven snow, but unfortunately, I have lived too long to believe that.

mamasinstinctknowsbest · 06/09/2013 10:04

Andrew Wakefield is still working tirelessly on behalf of parents and children who have experienced vaccine damage. He was a great doctor who found live measles virus in the stomachs of autistic children who were referred to him. This gave the children sever gastro intestinal problems and autistic behaviours. His work has been replicated by Dr Arthur Krigsman. The mainstream media and medical establissmnet work together to protect all vaccinations. There is big money involved here and chidren are being harmed knowingly to protect the vaccinations at all costs. Do your resesarch before you vaccinate your child.

mamasinstinctknowsbest · 06/09/2013 10:09

Andrew Wakefield was hounded and witch hunted as vaccines are protected at a very high level. Andrew Wakefield had these patients referred to him as he was a top gastro dr at the royal free. He found live measles virus in the stomachs of children with severe stomach disorders and autism. The vaccine strain. The children had ulcers and gastro disease. He made the connection scientifically. Hence the witch hint and ruination of him in the uk. He still works tirelessly supporting families and the cause. Watch him on you tube. Unfortunately he is too eloquent to be invited on mainstream media as his evidence and manner is just amazing. He wants to live debate but we live in a censored world. Research befor eyou vaccinate. I have learnt that all of them are dangerous and deadly.

LaVolcan · 06/09/2013 10:43

mamainstinct - I most certainly do think that there has been a witchhunt against him. So much so, that I began to seek out what he said to form my own judgement. I absolutely refuse to believe that this one man can be responsible for MMR vaccinations falling off. I am quite sure that there must have been some underlying fear there already.

Zideq · 06/09/2013 13:23

www.bmj.com/content/342/bmj.c5347.full

Beachcomber · 06/09/2013 13:40

And your point is?

What has your link got to do with the GMC hearing?

You really are going to have to be a little less cryptic. Links to the opinions of other people aren't really cutting it.

Do you agree with Brian Deer? Do you agree that the Lancet children were not sick with GI disease? Do you think these children should have been denied medical care, as Brian Deer thinks?

Zideq · 06/09/2013 13:43

Yes

LaVolcan · 06/09/2013 14:01

Yes to what?

You think children should be denied medical care?

bruffin · 06/09/2013 14:01

for those who want the proper version not Beachcombers and Crumbledwalnuts fantasy version , which they have got from other peoples blog and AOA. Its very hypocritical of them to have a go at Zideq for linking to a blog.

Wakefield gmc transcripts, all 197 days of them

Also OP and Zideq the Anderson Cooper interviews are very enlightening. Wakefield comes out very badly and and Cooper points out when he is trying to push his book.
"But, sir, if you're lying, then your book is also a lie. If your study is a lie, your book is a lie."

mamasintinct

How can they have been have been referred as a top gastro fr ?
His contract with the Royal Free was for research purposes only, he was not allowed to treat patients.

Nor did he find live measles virus in the GI. He was told that the tests he used were returning false positives before the paper was published

nicholas chadwicks evidence. He refused to put his name to it

" I believe that Dr Wakefield was aware of my negative PCR test results at the time that he submitted his paper entitled "Ileal Lymphoid Nodular Hyperplasia, Non‐Specific Colitis and Pervasive Developmental Disorder in Children," which was published in the Lancet in February 1998. Dr Wakefield relied on the positive results received from Dr Kawashima despite the fact that I had told him about Dr Kawashima's positive measles results, which turned out to be contamination from SSPE positive controls. I thought I had made it quite clear to Dr Wakefield that Kawashima's results were a result of contamination and were not true positives. I specifically asked Dr Wakefield not to include me on the list of authors of the Lancet paper because I was not comfortable with the fact that we had found
lots of negative results for measles virus in tissues from the autistic children."

Beachcomber · 06/09/2013 14:36

Zideq are you saying that you do not believe the Lancet children to have GI disease and that they therefore should be denied medical treatment for GI distress?

Come on man. Spit it out. Speak and own your opinions.

(The above opinion is that of Brian Deer - clearly expressed by him in writing and in speech. I am assuming due to you linking to his opinion that you agree with it.)

Beachcomber · 06/09/2013 15:15

Bruffin why don't you link to the primary source for Dr Chadwick's testimony? (I mean rather than a blog where only the first part of his testimony is cited.)

By which I mean the actual transcripts (which are from neither the GMC fitness to practice hearing, nor from the Walker-Smith appeal but from the Autism Omnibus Proceedings in the United States).

Chadwick gave testimony on day 10 of the proceedings. His presence (by telephone) was very bizarre as it was actually totally irrelevant to the proceedings - he hadn't worked with the technology in question, the patient in question, the lab in question, the samples in question and the results in question.

Chadwick's testimony begins at the bottom of page 5 and goes on until page 17. The quote below is what follows the part cited in bruffin's link, part of which she posted above.

The part I am quoting begins on page 14.

The transcript

MS. PATTON: Thank you, Dr. Chadwick. I have no further questions.

THE WITNESS: Thank you.

SPECIAL MASTER HASTINGS: Ms. Chin-Caplan, any questions?

MS. CHIN-CAPLAN: Just a few.

SPECIAL MASTER HASTINGS: Please go ahead.

MS. CHIN-CAPLAN: Thank you.

CROSS-EXAMINATION

BY MS. CHIN-CAPLAN:

Q Good morning, Dr. Chadwick. My name is Sylvia Chin-Caplan, and I represent the Petitioner, Michelle Cedillo, in this case.

A Hi.

Q Hi. You're aware that Dr. Wakefield is not a witness in this case, are you not?

A I'm not aware of that.

Q Are you aware that the Kawashima Lab is also not the lab in question here?

A Well, I don't know the details of the case, to be honest.

Q When you were approached to testify in this matter, what were you asked to do?

A I was asked to provide a statement regarding the work I did for Dr. Wakefield relating to the autistic patients.

Q And did you ask why?

A Sorry. I couldn't hear that last question.

Q Did you ask why?

A Did I ask why? Because it was a case regarding the safety of the vaccine.

Q Now, you testified that you worked with in-situ PCR. Is that it?

A Yes. This was used before any of the autistic work was being undertaken. I did a few months of working on this methodology.

Q In-situ PCR?

A Yes. I did a few months at the beginning of my project with Dr. Wakefield, and I did a few months at the very end as well on in-situ PCR.

Q So this was all on in-situ PCR? Is that correct?

A The work that was in my thesis relating to autistic patients was using normal PCR, not in-situ PCR. The in-situ PCR work I performed was never written up.

Q I see. So the in-situ PCR is more specific than the regular PCR, isn't it?

A No, that's not the case.

Q It's not?

A No, it's not specific. Because of the methodology it's actually less specific so there's less way of being certain about what is being detected.

Q Okay. Doctor, did you at any time use TaqMan PCR?

A No. TaqMan PCR wasn't really available while I was doing the Ph.D. It was something which came afterwards.

Q I see. Are you aware that the case that we're dealing with involves TaqMan PCR?

A I'm not aware, no. No.

Q Are you aware that the lab that we're dealing with involves the O'Leary Lab in Dublin, Ireland?

A Okay. I've heard of that lab, but I didn't know that that was the lab that you were using in this case.

Q And you've had no relationship with the

Dublin lab, have you?

A No.

Q You have no knowledge of their procedures or the testing that was done there, do you?

A No. I mean, I'm aware of TaqMan PCR, but that's all I know about the O'Leary Lab.

Q And as of the date that you left Dr. Wakefield's lab, you had not utilized TaqMan PCR in an experiment, had you?

A No.

Q Doctor, is there anybody with you?

A No.

Q No? You're by yourself?

A Yes.

MS. CHIN-CAPLAN: Okay. I have no further questions.

Zideq · 06/09/2013 15:49

Yes to both

Beachcomber · 06/09/2013 15:58

Thank you for your honesty.

So you think that children with autism should be denied medical treatment for GI disease.

Do you think all children should be denied appropriate medical care or just children who also happen to be autistic?

LaVolcan · 06/09/2013 16:06

Yes to both

Sorry, could you just clarify this? You believe that some children should be denied medical treatment?