First measles death suspected in Swansea

[CatherinaJTV]

www.thisissouthwales.co.uk/measles-death-suspected-Swansea/story-18746494-detail/story.html#axzz2QtsV9Z49

25 year old man found dead, measles suspected, autopsy pending.

Sorry how does MMR result in "Creating a generation of babies who may be more vulnerable to measles infection at an age where the disease is dangerous to them".

I really don't understand how vaccination makes you more vulnerable, I really don't.

Are you suggesting we should allow our populations to "evolve" natural immunity? That would take many generations of debilitating side effects and deaths. Think of the small pox?

And, You cannot ignore the societal implications of healthcare - be it the impact on the unvaccinated, the cost of treating severe cases, and the fact that we live in large, densely populated urban centres.

Face the facts, apart for a kooky websites, science, medicine and society in general support vaccination. Anti MMR campaigners keep company with homeopathy, moon land comspiracy theorists and climate change skeptics.

I'm wondering why the risk of SSPE has increased. It used to be quoted as 1 in 100,000 (higher in children under 1).

Bumbley, I don't think the risk has increased - differential diagnosis has just become better. See the best paper here: www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16235165

If the vaccination uptake was high-enough the alleged reduced protection via maternal antibodies would not be a problem, as herd immunity would make epidemics impossible. Measles were supposed to be eradicated by 2015 if it hadn't been for the antivax lunacy.

Why would a single measles jab be more expensive than a 3 in 1?

Isn't it cheaper?

And wasn't the man who died vaccinated anyway?

'Think of the small pox?' Why? What got rid of that?

'Anti MMR campaigners keep company with homeopathy, moon land comspiracy theorists and climate change skeptics.'

I am all about evidence-based practice but also parental choice. The MMR or nothing rule is not choice. Parents make their choices for all kinds of reasons. Removal of this choice creates suspicion imo.

Yes Starlight, he was.

Interesting Catherina. If there was an under reporting of measles cases, that could skew the data as well couldn't it?

of course it could skew the data - there is an algorithm in the paper I linked to, they find (have not read it in ages) about 1 SSPE case in 10k reported cases, but think it there may be about 50% underreporting? In Germany in 2006, there were only 313 reported measles cases amongst infants, but 2 SSPE cases, so some experts think that the risk might be a lot higher than the 1 in 20k www.kinderaerzte-im-netz.de/bvkj/aktuelles1/show.php3?id=4046&nodeid=26 (sorry, link in German, translate with google, maybe?)

It's not certain that Gareth Williams was vaccinated - there's only one news site that says

"She said she believed her son, who suffered from asthma, had been immunised against measles but had been ill for around a week."

And all the other sites carry a direct interview with Gareth's mother, who is urging people to get vaccinated so they don't have to go through what she's going through:

'Get your children vaccinated and get yourselves vaccinated. I wouldn't want anyone to go through the tragedy that we are going through... Gareth has taken part of us with him and we can never get it back.'

He'd been in hospital with his asthma apparently. He had seen an OOH doctor the night before he died because he had been feeling sick and had come out in a rash.

I wonder why the doctor hasn't suspected measles in the middle if a measles outbreak - particularly if he was unvaccinated.

bubbly I just read an article which said he was covered in a rash apart from his arms. It inferred that it was the lack of rash on his arms which stopped them diagnosing measles.

" Measles were supposed to be eradicated by 2015 if it hadn't been for the antivax lunacy."

I'd be interested to see who had this aim an when. It is clearly not going to be met, but that's to do with the outreach in developing countries (just not the resources nor the impetus as there was for far dealier) smallpox) and is barely connected to take up rates in developed countries.

There never was a 'golden age' of MMR take up btw. The highest UK vax rates occurred when the singles were available in parallel. No matter how medically good a vaccine is, it's effectiveness is zero if it's not being given.

In the 1970s when there was a DPT scare, they reintroduced the DT alongside, because it was thought better to get as much protection into the children as possible. When obvious that there is a scare in late 1990s (and at time of Lancet publication, it wasn't remotely obvious there was no connexion), it was exactly the wrong time to withdraw singles. There was a huge call (including from HCPs) for licence to be extended until more research had been carried out and rates plummeted to under 50% in places. It is a pity health policy-makers in 1998/99 did not take a similar view to those of the 1970s. If they had, perhaps far fewer would be vulnerable now.

The WHO are hoping to eradicate measles in Europe by 2015

I can't see that happening now though

And where would we be now if cowpox had been erradicated?

Is that a serious question?

Firstly, infection with measles is far more likely to result in long term complications than cow pox (sorry, I have no stats for that but isn't that a given?); and secondly infection with measles doesn't provide any advantages that I can think of wrt other infections .

Neither did cowpox until it was 'discovered'.

Yes it is a serious question.

So we shouldn't be aiming to wipe out a global killer then?

And you do know that small pox still exists, in vials anyway? So if we ever need it, it's there?

Got it!. You need to look carefully at their terms and definitions. UK would be currently in compliance as there is no endemic transmission (outbreak lasting over 12 months). And it covers only Europe, in the first place, and there have been at least two earlier deadlines which have been and gone (as opposed to one derailed grand plan).

Also, it's happy with MCV (ie any measles containing vaccine).

Sorry to jump in a little off topic, but I wonder if anyone can answer this?

My mum claims that I had measles three times and german measles once (are they even related?). My mum claims a lot of things though so I don't know that I believe her. She said that I never built up any immunity to it. I'm 43 and wasn't vaccinated against anything.

Not cowpox iirc.

We should protect people from harm - yes.

Does that mean vaccinating? Perhaps, but it isn't necessarily the only way. And clearly it isn't working anyway.

Amongst many who are suspicious of government 'recommendations' are those who have already suffered at the hands of government recommendations. An element of politics will occur in all advice, and such advice will usually be based on whole-population stats rather than individual. I don't trust this government to make all their decisions in my interest, nor the last. Anyone who does without question, is a fool.

Cowpox isn't eradicated though.

What would you suggest then? Vaccination does work; if herd immunity had been maintained the current outbreak would have been very unlikely to have taken hold the way it has. Of course we should ask questions; but when all the evidence tells us that vaccination works and that long term side effects are far rarer than complications from the diseases themselves that is good enough for me.

Parents of a 18 month old child found it impossible to get their GP to submit a yellow card, when she died suddenly,ten days after receiving MMR vaccination. Up till then she had been very healthy. There may be up to 95% under reporting in adverse reactions so how do we know if any medicine in safe?

Do you have a link for that story? I would imagine that any GP would refuse to do so in such a case without proof that the MMR was a contributing factor. Surely a post mortum would be carried out before any conclusions were reached? In which case it would be up to the pathologist to make that call, not the GP. Also, anyone can fill in a yellow card, the parents could have done it themselves