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Pt 7 (Feb13) Any old prolapse! Uterus/womb prolapse, rectocele, cystocele, enterocele, urethrocele, incontinence, pelvic floor, anterior and posterior repair, TVT etc

994 replies

WhoKnowsWhereTheTimeGoes · 20/02/2013 19:05

This is thread 7 (again - see below) of a long-running series of posts from ladies suffering from pelvic prolapses to support each other through the process of diagnosis, repair and recovery.

With apologies for confusion in thread numbers - the previous thread was called part 7 but it was actually the 6th thread.

Here are the previous threads:

Thread 1
Thread 2
Thread 3
Thread 4
Thread 5
Thread 6

Info from BBC Health

What is a pelvic prolapse?

As the muscles, ligaments and supporting tissues in the pelvis become weaker, they are less able to hold in the organs of the pelvis such as the womb (uterus) or bladder.

Gravity pulls these organs down and, in the more severe cases, may appear through the entrance to the vagina.

A variety of problems can occur, depending on where the weakness lies and which organs are able to descend, but in every case there is some degree of prolapse of the vaginal wall, which begins to invert (rather like a sock turning inside out).
Prolapse of the womb or uterus is the most common prolapse, affecting as many as one in eight older women to some degree
Prolapse of the bladder, known as a cystocele, is less common.
Prolapse of the urethra (the tube that carries urine out of the bladder) is known as a urethrocele.
Prolapse of the intestines is quite rare, and known as an enterocele or rectocele.

Symptoms

Symptoms depend on which tissues descend, and how severe the prolapse is.

They may include:
A sense of heaviness or pressure in the pelvis.
The appearance of a bulge of tissue in the genital area, which can be quite alarming, and is often red and sore.
Urinary problems, such as having to urinate more frequently, feeling the need urgently, being incontinent (losing control of the bladder) or, conversely, being unable to pass urine when you need to.
Pain in the pelvis or lower back.
Sexual problems, including pain and decreased libido.
Constipation.
Vaginal discharge or bleeding.

Treatment and recovery

Once a prolapse has developed, surgery to fix the affected organs is usually the only way to cure it effectively.

However, another option is to use a device known as a vaginal ring pessary. This is rather like a contraceptive diaphragm or cervical cap. It's made of silicone or latex, and placed in the vagina to push back the prolapsed organs and hold them in place. Many women happily manage their prolapse this way.

OP posts:
Nims99 · 27/06/2013 21:07

Hi, new here and so pleased to have found somewhere where I can feel "normal". I posted on another prolapse page on this site last night but think it was an old one! I have a cystocele and rectocele, and I think uterine prolapse too now, since having my third child (now 16m) who weighed in at 10lb11oz. I saw a gynae almost a year ago who said it was grade two and justified surgery, but wouldn't do it until I wasn't having to lift my youngest around. I asked about a pessary but he said they're for 80 year old great aunts (which I thought was a bit rude!). I was told to come back if it was really bothering me. Well that time is now here, I've had enough of it now; the poking about to poo, weeing my pants, dragging, discomfort, protrusions, aches, bloated feeling, the list goes on as you all well know. The thing is I've read so many bad reports about the success (or lack of) of repairs with many saying they wished they'd never had it done. Is it really so bad and is a pessary a viable option? I'm seeing my gp next week to get referred again but would really appreciate any advice. N.

Dahlialover · 27/06/2013 21:24

Hi Nimms. If you read back over this thread and the others (it may take some days!), there are all sorts of experiences, some good and some long and complicated. I had a fairly simple rectocele repair, which was not a magic cure. I am still dealing with constipation, menopause, and trying to find ways of not having to poke about. However, I am glad I had it done, as I now feel mended and it is still so much easier to go to the loo than it was, even if not perfect :)

I hope someone comes along with more extensive experience. Welcome.

kotinka · 27/06/2013 21:34

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WhoKnowsWhereTheTimeGoes · 27/06/2013 21:50

Hi Nimms - I was diagnosed with a rectocele bad enough to justify surgery and a much milder cystocele about a year ago, I had bulges at the entrance, problems pooing and a lot of rubbing, dragging, aching, discomfort when sitting. I had the same comment about pessaries being for old ladies (I'm 46). Anyway i had the rectocele repaired in September, all went to plan and no major pain or discomfort and have had successful physio for the cystocele (which wasn't really causing any symptoms) and all my problems are sorted, certainly for now if not forever. Now, my problems have not been as bad as many on this thread, and maybe yours are worse, but I am very glad I had it done.

I have to say though, the only problem I had with pooing was it getting stuck in the rectocele and needing a helping finger in the vagina to push it out,I have never suffered with constipation or IBS or similar, and have always had very regular bowel habits, whoch probably helps a lot. When I need to go it is pretty urgent, however my body seems to know when I am at home and I virtually never get the urge when I am out and about so I don't fear getting caught out, which is a problem for some people and may not be fixed by repairs.

OP posts:
mrsclairet · 27/06/2013 22:03

Hi nimms, sorry this will be quick as its my bedtime. I would weigh up how bad it is. Personally I wouldn't have it done with a 16 month old as they stress not to lift afterwards. I spoke to my mum last night who was saying my aunt had it done and didn't heed the advice and is now having problems again (years later). I also read that 25-30% of women have to have further surgery as it reoccurs. My ds2 is 33 months old and I have found it quite hard as he is a mummys boy and still wants loads of attention but he is in a toddler bed and climbs onto a chair for dinner and also into his car seat. It's a tough decision!

WhoKnowsWhereTheTimeGoes · 27/06/2013 22:19

Good point about the age of DCs from MrsC, mine are 9 and 7 so do not need picking up although they would like it from time to time and I do miss it. I also don't have a manual job which helps. I can't see any reason that you couldn't try a pessary in order to buy time before committing to surgery.

OP posts:
NeopreneMermaid · 28/06/2013 00:02

Thanks Kotinka and welcome Nims.

If you've finished your family then you can have surgery with any age DCs but you do have to be more careful with really little ones and basically delegate childcare. My two are three and 15 months and my mum has moved in with us for both of my surgeries (inc this one at the moment). I am strict about not lifting them (even into bath, bed, highchair, etc). It has been heartbreaking not being able to pick them up (esp when my littlest wast even walking when I had my first surgery and they have had chickenpox during both rounds) but I make sure I they get lots of cuddles sitting/laying and storytimes.

How do you feel about having more DCs?

My experience of surgery is mixed - you might have seen my recent posts with my rantings about complications this time but my first round (probably on a previous thread) went without a hitch and I am so so happy I had it done. Smile

Have you spoken to your GP?

ClaresAvonRecruitment · 28/06/2013 12:10

www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/designer-vagina-surgery-the-new-cosmetic-117464

I read this article when doing my research...the surgeon who actually carried mine out, is mentioned in the article (albeit he comments we shouldn't want it done based on purely cosmetic reasons, think he's referring more to labiaplasty)

I had been going to docs about it for 10 years, and although its early days (4.5 weeks) all is well.... Maybe ask me at 8 weeks once the stitches have dissolved....

I would say that although I had both prolapses and I quote "everything down there is dead" (that's what I said to docs and then surgeon), I've not had any of the problems some of the ladies have with splinting etc, something I'd never even heard of until joining here!
Overall I'm hoping its money/loan well spent x

ClaresAvonRecruitment · 28/06/2013 12:12

It seems although it ones up on a google search the link doesn't work, so I've copied the text here:-
Tears streaming down her face, Debra Hooker gently pushed her husband off and shook her head.

Hurt and confused, Dan rolled over in bed and went to sleep, while Debra crept into the bathroom and wept.

It had been nine months since the once-passionate couple had made love. Since having son Samuel, retail ­merchandiser Debra, 45, had refused sex.

It was nothing to do with having a newborn to care for, Debra was simply too ashamed of her body. But now, after designer vagina surgery, Debra?s marriage has been given a new lease of life.

And she?s not the only one to benefit. Statistics show that vaginal surgery is fast becoming one of the most requested surgical procedures.

According to Debra, from Swanscombe, Kent it wasn?t only her sex life that was given that vital boost.

?It?s absolutely the best thing I?ve ever done? she says. ?I was ashamed and embarrassed of the way I looked downstairs after having a baby, but it wasn?t just about appearance. There are physical health implications if your vagina becomes stretched and misshapen.?

?My sex life and marriage is great and I can exercise without discomfort and have lost almost four stone.?

Designer vagina procedures fall into two categories, labiaplasty, which i­nvolves shortening the length of protruding inner labia, and ­vaginoplasty to tighten the wall of the vagina.

The most ­recent NHS figures, ­released in 2009, show a 70% increase in the number of women having labiaplasty on the NHS on the previous year. There were 1,118 ­operations in 2008 compared with 669 in 2007 and 404 in 2006.

And some clinics that perform the surgeries have seen a similar trend in recent years. Transform, one of the leading cosmetic surgery providers, has already performed 15 vaginal operations this year and predicts it will complete 90 over the 12-month period ? that?s a 58% increase on 2010, when it performed 57.

Dr Lawrence Mascarenhas is a ­consultant gynaecologist for the NHS and private sector. He carries out, on average, 12 of these operations a month.

He says: ?Labiaplasty is more of a ­cosmetic procedure about improving ­symmetry for an improved aesthetic ­appearance, while vaginoplasty is to rectify the problems which may arise from having the vagina wall stretched, for example ­during a very difficult childbirth.?

He believes women are putting themselves at ­unnecessary risk to create the perfect vagina and should only have a ­labiaplasty if they are ­suffering complications.

?It?s the same as women ­seeing pictures of celebrities? breasts and bottoms and wanting to achieve the same perfection through surgery, they are now extending this to their vaginas.

?But with all surgery comes a risk. There?s little room for error with a ­procedure like this because if you go too short you can cut off blood supply to the clitoris, meaning loss of sexual ­sensation, permanently.?

Some have even compared the procedure to genital ­mutilation, inflicted on women in some Third World ­countries. ?I wouldn?t go that far but I would strongly urge that women do not go ahead purely on aesthetic grounds? he adds.

A recent study at Kings College London saw ­experts link the growing demand in ­labiaplasty to an increase in availability of pornographic images online.

It suggested women were ­trying to emulate the look of actresses and models seen in intimate pictures.

Dr Mascarenhas says: ?That does make sense to me. Women compare themselves as they do with any other media image, but if someone came to me with a picture of a vagina they would like to create I would refer them to a psychologist.

?The images may be unrealistic, even digitally enhanced.?

But Debra is horrified by the supposed link between pornography and operations like hers.

She believes the rise in demand is simply a case of women being made aware that help is available.

She says: ?I think it?s hugely insulting to women like me. I wanted to look and feel like a normal women, how I used to feel. I didn?t want to look like a porn star, I wanted to be able to walk and to have sex with my partner without experiencing all of that pain and discomfort.

?These experts are doing a huge ­injustice to people like me, who suffer with what?s already an embarrassing problem, without them making it worse.? It took Debra months to pluck up the courage to admit to ­husband Dan, 38, what was wrong.

?Before Samuel was born we couldn?t keep our hands off each other, so of course he didn?t understand what he?d done wrong when I started turning him down when he wanted sex,? she says.

She?d had no problems after Georgina, now 17, by a previous partner, was born, but after delivering Samuel, now five, everything changed.

?He was a very big baby at 10lb 4oz and it wasn?t an easy birth,? she grimaces.

Weeks after the birth, Debra felt ready to make love, but the couple?s attempts ended miserably. ?To put it bluntly, despite being well ­endowed, my husband couldn?t stay inside because I had ­completely lost my shape ­downstairs,? Debra says.

She was also suffering stress ­incontinence and this was further complicated by the changes to her labia, which had been stitched after the delivery.

?Skinny jeans were ­uncomfortable and sometimes even just walking caused friction because of the way I had been repaired, so my problems downstairs were starting to affect every aspect of my life. I was getting very depressed.?

With Dan?s support, Debra went to her GP who ­diagnosed a uterine prolapse, which meant her bowel could be felt behind the damaged ­vagina walls.

She was offered a hysterectomy, but refused. ?I got more depressed. We grew apart and I accused Danny of fancying other ­women, simply because I felt so bad about my own body.?

In November 2008, Debra was ­researching vaginal surgery when she saw an advert for the TV programme ­Embarrassing Bodies.

She contacted the team and met a ­surgeon, who agreed she would benefit from both vaginoplasty and labiaplasty.

?Dan was shocked, but we couldn?t afford to have the operations privately and by then I didn?t care who saw me as long as I got my confidence and sex life back.?

During the 90-minute ­operation at Transform, in North London, surgeons ­repositioned her womb and strengthened the vaginal wall.

Debra was told to ­abstain for six weeks while she recovered.

?I was tender but could see things looked a lot neater. I felt tighter and more in place, so I marked the date on my calendar and started counting down.

?Dan I both agreed it was fantastic and well worth the wait,? she says.

?If more women are having the operation it?s because we?re finally able to talk about problems like this and the media has made us aware there is at last an answer, not because of pornography.?

Another patient, who asked not to be named, underwent a labiaplasty abroad last year.

She says: ?I was always unhappy with how I looked down there but after having children it got a lot worse.

?I was referred by my GP for ­vaginoplasty because my sex life had been destroyed by childbirth and I asked if my labia could be done at the same time.

?I would disagree that labiaplasty is cosmetic because for me it has eased a great deal of suffering. The fact it looks nicer is a happy bonus.?

But patients like these are in the ­minority. It?s only in extreme and rare cases that the labia causes a medical problem and this is usually after the delivery of a child, where the mother has been badly sutured.

For these patients, the benefits outweigh the risks, but not for those simply looking to create a perfect-looking vagina.

?Many women requesting this operation are young and have not had children yet.? Dr Mascarenhas says.

And while the procedure is unlikely to complicate childbirth, he urges young women considering the operation to ­consider the perfect vaginas they have seen may not be real.

?There may be digital imagery involved and that is going to lead to disappointment for patients, because the ideal they are seeking is not achievable.?

GPs have reported girls as young as 13 complaining to them that their vaginas do not look normal.

?The first thing I say to women is that there is no normal,? says surgery adviser Linda Briggs.

She has also seen a massive surge in the request for designer vaginas. ?I get a lot of requests from young girls and it?s alarming because it?s just another part of their body they have to worry about.

?If our surgeons don?t think there is a genuine problem, they won?t operate and instead we suggest the patient see a GP for counselling.?

In the permanent quest for the perfect boobs, bottom and body, it seems people are now trying to be beautiful, even on the parts that people can?t see.

Check out all the latest News, Sport & Celeb gossip at Mirror.co.uk www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/designer-vagina-surgery-the-new-cosmetic-117464#ixzz2XVa3FUQd
Follow us: @DailyMirror on Twitter |

kotinka · 28/06/2013 13:00

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NeopreneMermaid · 28/06/2013 14:02

I agree Kotinka. These procedures aren't new and there's a bug difference between cosmetic procedures to look "a bit neater" and medical procedures to stop everything falling out. I don't think anyone on this thread got to flick through a catalogue and say, "That one there please." More like, "Can you keep my bladder and rectum away from my knees please." Grin

Bladderama · 28/06/2013 14:15

Lol Neoprene! Grin

Interesting article but I really wish that they would balance these things with the reality of actually living with prolapses, it is a completely separate subject to cosmetic appearance with I agree is just awful for these young girls to be striving for. Grrr.

kotinka · 28/06/2013 14:51

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ClaresAvonBiz · 29/06/2013 07:24

I know, that's why I felt frustrated having to go down the 'cosmetic' route to get my prolapsed sorted, I felt like I was 'choosing' to do it, rather than it being a dire need..... Still, glad I took that step, 5 weeks in and after accidentally pulling out a stitch yesterday, feel like my bowels have finally sorted themselves out and I haven't got the horrible heavy buttocks feeling I had where I couldn't sit down(felt like it was all bunged up, down there)

NeopreneMermaid · 29/06/2013 11:36

So Clare did you go private?

kotinka · 01/07/2013 09:23

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mrsclairet · 01/07/2013 10:21

Hi good luck kotinka. I have had a busy weekend as it was my DS1's 5th birthday. We did it at a soft play centre so they basically did everything but I am still exhausted. It was a bit weird yesterday, I was having a bit of a look in the shower and I felt something really hard I thought maybe it's a stitch but it was black and after thinking about it I think it could be a kidney stone. They run in my mum's family and apparently if they are small enough they can pass without causing pain. I just can't think that a stitch would be so hard. Anyway I suppose the fact that it didn't cause any pain means I needn't worry about it.

Neoprene - how are you?

kotinka · 01/07/2013 13:42

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NeopreneMermaid · 01/07/2013 17:05

MrsC it could be a stitch/knot. The one I had fall out had a knot in. Boak.

Kotinka good luck today. Let us know how it goes.

I think I'm now over the worst although the antibiotics have given me the squits which in turn have given me piles. And I now have toothache which I'm trying to pretend isn't happening. Gah. On the upside, the antibiotics seem to be helping my eyes recover from lasek - in the last three days I can suddenly see leaves on trees again and so don't hear anything anyone says as I'm mesmerised.

Children are on the mend from the pox though.

Edinburgh63 · 02/07/2013 08:38

Morning ladies.....

Thankfully my urine infection has cleared up.

Kotinka: how did the check up go?

Neoprene : glad to hear you are on the mend. It's a catch 22 scenario... Get antibiotics, gives you diarrhoea and then piles. Get constipated and you get piles too... Can't win. I too had diarrhoea with my antibiotics etc, just lucky I don't get constipated.

It's week 7 post op now.... Able to walk further now and doing more about the house. But still get tired easily so not ready for the Marathon yet Neoprene!

kotinka · 02/07/2013 09:05

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jessandme · 02/07/2013 09:27

Glad you got good news koti you know me by the name I PM'D you on the other day.
I posted and had some good advice from you ladies a year or so ago.
Thats when I had anterior, posterior repair and hysterectomy.
Must agree with koti at my first post surgery check consultant just had a 2 second poke and said fine. In my case already knew it was anything but fine.
Had a real fight to get things sorted. Finally found out nerves in the area were damaged probably during the hysterectomy.
Was finally discharged a month ago but still see womens health physio which really helps.
Still glad I had it done even though i have this nerve damage feel so much better than pre surgery.
Will read back later and catch up with the rest of you lovely ladies, some still here from a year ago Hi footle Im an older poster than most too and still recovering a year on I think.

kotinka · 02/07/2013 09:32

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mrsclairet · 02/07/2013 12:51

Hi, glad to hear you are healing well kotinka. I know exactly what you mean, when I went for my initial appointment the consultant seemed really impatient when I was asking questions and then when I went for my pre-op I was telling the nurse that and she seemed really surprised. I am going to go to my lovely GP as well as my consultant, he is a man and I would previously have always made sure I went to a female GP but I have seen him a few times now and he is happy to ask any questions I have, I know he might not be as knowledgeable as a consultant but he makes you feel like a real human being.

I have got piles too and now I'm not sure whether I'm feeling uncomfortable from the piles or the op. I had the front and back repaired at the same time and the front feels fine (although I haven't tried to DTD yet) but it still feels like I have got something stuck up my bottom! I was talking to a friend the other day though who had an episiotomy with her first son and she said it took 3 months to feel comfortable sitting down for long periods so that gave me a bit of hope!

jessandme · 02/07/2013 17:45

Hi everyone,
koti think unless you are ultra fit/very young pre surgery they underestimate recovery time. In your case with just posterior repair sure you will back to normal in much less than a year. Just go easy on the rogering at first eg take it slow Grin and as I said previously if not back to normal at 3 months don't be disheartened we all have different recovery times. There is no hard and fast rule.
As far as the nerve damage is concerned, FOR ME PRE SURGERY i was in severe pain and both no1 and no2's were hard to achieve. Now I can do both easily, well too easily iyswim. The nerve damage makes it hard for me to hold either for very long. Am working on it with the physio tho and really feel things are improving which is why I said I was still recovering a year on.

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