Calling all Raggedies - the THIRD Ragged Bits thread. Childbirth injuries, sphincter problems, fistulae... all welcome.

[Jacksmania]

First thread here, May 2008 to June 2009.

Second thread here, June 2009 to Oct 2012.

Welcome everyone with ragged bits due to childbirth. We're sorry you had to find us, but we promise to hold your hand and listen.

There is no TMI here and nothing is too gross, too embarrassing or too horrible.



All welcome.

[cravingcake]

Totally get it, I am 5 years on from when it all first went raggedy and still have moments of tearfulness about it all. It can take a long time but I am definitely improving and now just trying to do everything I can to manage things. there's no reason you can't carry on walking, and even possibly running as well.

[Jayj87]

Definitely go to the GP and get it checked. No women should ever have to feel that way and have ongoing problems years after giving birth. I really think there should be some support for women who have have traumatic births or problems after.

[Idonthaveenoughtime]

Hello ladies, please help me find a specialist to fix my ruined down below please! Or give me advice on what can be done to fix it.

Also if anyone had their stitching fixed on the NHS what hospital did you go through/who carried it out, and what was the process you had to follow, and how long did it take?

Unlike my first labour I was relieved to have had a lovely totally unmedicated and textbook birth pretty much completely unassisted (starting to think i'd have been better never calling the midwife at all and stitching it myself!! ha.) The only bit I needed a medical professional for was the bit that has ruined enjoyment of my life and child subsequently - a few stitches.

I'm feeling extremely depressed at the moment and think my relationship is about to breakdown because of it, I can't stand my partner being near me and sex is impossible anyway because of pain and because I find my lady garden too disgusting and ruined to look at without crying, I'm also finding it very hard to enjoy my baby as I want to and should be able after a straight forward birth because I am so upset and distracted and don't know how to fix this. There are moments when I wonder if I would be better dead than mutilated and watching my happy family crumble because of this, not that I'd do more than fantasise about it, but I'd probably trade a limb in return for not being mutilated down there and unable to ever have sex again, or feel like a proper woman. I don't have PND because I know exactly what the problem is and want it solved. And when I say mutilated, I mean, I've seen postpartum vaginas and this is not normal, I was very happy with my vagina even after my first DC, and there were changes (big episiotomy, some pain but otherwise looked pretty much normal enough after healing). But this time I can't even recognise my normal anatomy, it's like a Picasso.

Yet this time round I only had a first degree/borderline second tear (do I trust the woman that stitched me up so badly to accurately diagnose a tear?) mostly internal but it looks like I tore at the entrance to the vagina. And for some reason the midwife has mutilated me. The base of my left labia has been pulled over and sewn onto my right labia, the fold of skin at the base of the vagina that used to be there is nowhere to be seen, she's just reconstructed my fourchette/perineum with my labia? There is some hard red skin sewn to right labia that sticks out and hurts ( there was a stitch holding it on), where did that come from? I've no idea why she's done this, but the skin is now warped and overlapped as confirmed by an obstetrician on labour ward. All I know is sex is impossible, my vaginal hole is now wonky as is my entire perineum, and because the edge of my left labia is pulled tight to the left and sewn sort of inside the lip of the right labia my left labia is pulled into a sort of L shape, it also makes my right labia look twice as big and twice as projecting as the one on the left. It looks deformed, and unnatural, which it is. Unfortunately I don't know if my labia is even salvageable 8 weeks later as the tissues have fused. Even worse, the painful tension on that skin pulling my labia at strange angles means I have a gaping vagina, it isn't muscular, it is caused by the malformation of the skin, my labia meet at the top but not at the bottom where the skin has been sewn inwards and sideways. I think I'm going to need more than a simple repair, more like reconstructive surgery of the labia minora and base of the vaginal opening?
An Obstetrician has told me I will need a fentons. I do NOT need a fentons! Dh can get in fine on the one time i tried it, but it hurts excruciatingly where the skin pulls unnaturally on the left. If anything the hole is BIGGER than before as the little fold of skin at the bottom where the labia met has not been reconstructed by the midwife and is gone so the opening looks longer. (i'm fine with that, just not fine with it being deformed, painful, or made bigger and looser so as to ruin my sex life for a different reason to the one that is ruining it now), the pain is because my labia has been stitched and pulled across and is thus pulling the wrong way. If i went in for a fentons and came out with part of my labia just cut away rather than fixed back and a massive loose hole I would literally kill myself having been mutilated twice by the NHS! I need to see someone who really knows how to fix me back to some kind of NORMAL post baby state.

Secondly, they never stitched the second degree internal tear properly, if at all ( when I went in to labour ward they told me a. I hadn't torn externally...um why the stitches then? b. that my stitches had fallen out internally...hm, or were never put in?) and I now have a deep chasm that is still open two months later in there and shooting pains, I also have pain on the side they say has no tears, so want that checking!)

I went to my gp and was told a referral was made but when I rang to check how long they said it could be weeks? I can't wait weeks, I can't even drive my car because it hurts when I put tension on the skin reaching for the pedals! On the other hand I have zero confidence in the staff at the hospital and don't want to go back there as the gynaecologists there have a terrible reputation.

Please can someone tell me where and by whom they had a repair done? Or someone who might be of help? After my recent bad experiences I'd rather make a private appointment with a good consultant directly so that I can explore my options in depth and know I'm going to get the right results based on a proper diagnosis of my situation, as this doesn't seem to be common?

I'll go anywhere in the UK to find the right person. I'm not even sure if it's a urogynaecologist or a plastic surgeon I need. But i need to see someone skilled in repair/reconstruction of the vulva/perineum I would guess and someone to check what's going on with the stitched tear internally and the pain from that.

I'd just like my labia to look normal again (as there was no reason to mess with them!) and thus my vaginal opening to look (and feel!) much more normal without them just cutting a bigger hole! If I have to go through another surgery I want to make sure I get the best aesthetic and functional repair possible after all of this so that I never need to have surgery there again.

I have read about perineoplasty but it's the skin not the muscle that's damaged ( I hope! Who knows what else was missed). I had no perineal tearing and have no perineal scars, and i don't want undamaged muscle cut and thus damaged just to repair my vaginal opening and labia if possible.

I am also very upset because I hadn't finished my family, and after this botched stitching of a tiny tear it may be I can't have any more children if I have a repair, and if i don't have a repair i can't have sex to have children. This stings emotionally, especially since I really enjoyed the birth and would have no issues doing it again. And the last thing I want is more (what should have been unnecessary) surgery via a c-section.

Really hoping someone can give me some hope that this can be fixed because although I'm trying to be strong and focused for my children inside I'm feeling really down and can't think of much else.

[Idonthaveenoughtime]

She told me it was a 'tiny tear' was imagining some sort of straight line easy to fix thing or I'd have demanded to go to hospital and be stitched there! It's not as though it was a 3rd/4th degree. Going to go make tea and try to think happy thoughts.

[Jayj87]

Im so sorry to hear that you have also had a bad experience. I was the same, sex was completely out of the question and all I done is cry. Don't give up hope though as it is salvageable. Basically I tore and was told it was only a first degree tear and left to carry on with life, something that I definitely didn't have. I went to the doctors for my 6 week check and she examined me and confirmed it was a second degree tear as I had torn muscle and had a gaping vagina too. Long story short, I was referred by my GP to my local NHS gynaecologist who carried out a reconstruction 10 months after having my baby. Since, the operation has been extremely sucessful and I am so happy I had it done. This was carried out by DR Kenney at St Mary's on the isle of wight. Please don't feel you are the only one who has experienced such poor care. Make sure you go and get the right treatment for you. Obviously sex was a bit awkward at first but we have no issues now. The only thing I am aware that's different is the vagina hole, it's less supple and doesn't stretch as well as it did. But it works extremely well and has made me a happier person. Good luck. If you have anymore questions, I am happy to answer them!

[CactusPlant2017]

Hi, I can see this thread hasn't been active for some time but I don't know who else will understand.

I had a fourth degree tear in labour a few years ago. Immediately afterwards I had trouble holding in wind and I would always have feacal residue remaining no matter how many times I wiped after a bowl movement.

The symptoms cleared up after a while but three years later and they are back. I saw a surgeon today who has said there is a gap in my anal sphincter. I have to go for further tests to determine how bad it is and what the next step will be. However, the only option that seems as though it would work is surgery. And the surgery success rate for this type of issue is 50-60%-that's so low!

Has anyone experienced this and found something that worked, or had the surgery with a good outcome?

At the moment I feel so extremely low and I want to cry whenever it comes to mind. The involuntary passing of wind is extremely embarrassing!

[CactusPlant2017]

Hi, is this post still active? Unfortunately I have lots to add.

[rhoa]

Hi everyone. I would like to know the same thing as Cactus...I too have lots to add! Cactus feel free to pm me if no one responds xx

[Blahblahblahyadayadayada]

Jumping back on this thread. I recently had a c section for the delivery of my second baby. I had a fourth degree tear 3.5 years ago. I do still have symptoms, hence the c section.
Is this thread still active?

[CactusPlant2017]

Sorry to hear this ladies!

I am going to see a general surgery consultant on Wednesday and I feel so nervous!

Have either of you spoke with a doctor regarding your symptoms?

[CactusPlant2017]

I'm terrified that they will say that there is no solution and I will be left this way. It's having a huge impact on my life. Socially I have really withdrawn. Passing wind involuntarily is so embarrassing!

[MajorClanger123]

Hi ladies, can I join you? I've had 3 babies - first 2 were vaginal with 3rd (bordering on 4th) degree tears (one was a forceps delivery). Third baby (5.5 yrs ago) was elective c-section due to concerns over my already ragged bits and ever increasing baby sizes potentially causing even more damage if I were to deliver naturally.

I have exactly as cactus describes - trouble holding in wind, wiping issues etc. Just been to see a colorectal surgeon who says I have lots of scaring around my back passage. She has arranged a flexible sigmoidoscopy to check internal bowels are healthy plus an anal ultrasound. I've already had anal pressure tests to see how much fluid my back passage could hold (did whilst 25 weeks pregnant with baby no3 in order to decide whether I should have a c-section).

Ultimately, consultant told me this week that they will try to control symptoms rather than go for surgery at the moment, due to the low success rate of surgery. She has prescribed me liquid Imodium to firm up my stools in the hope they won't 'leak' or need loads of wiping which makes me sore. Another physio friend I spoke to said to ask for referral to a woman's health physio.
I will update again once I've had sigmoidoscopy and anal US. Sorry we're all in this situation but comforting to know not alone

[CactusPlant2017]

Hi MajorClanger123, sorry you're here.

I have had a sigmoidoscopy and the results were fine. The procedure was quite quick-if that's any kind of comfort to you.

On Wednesday I shall be having an ultrasound and the anal pressure tests. Any information that you have about the pressure test would be great. It has already been confirmed that I have a gap in my sphincter muscle so it's just to determine how much damage has been done. 😭😭

How do you feel about not having surgery?

Keep us posted with your progress. 😊

[MajorClanger123]

Hi cactus the pressure tests were (from memory!) fine - I turned up 25 weeks pregnant & not expecting any tests at all, so it was a slight shock to begin with!
From what I recall, they inserted a small tube up my bottom and pumped varying amounts of water up there to see how much I could hold (so started off with not much and got progressively more). They found I couldn't hold as much as somebody of my age should hold (I was 32 at the time, now 38), but it wasn't a bad or uncomfortable experience at all. I think I wet myself though during the procedure as I had very damp trousers after wards (but I did have bad pregnancy stress incontinence), and they never let you take your bottoms off - just sort of pull them down to knees.

I'm a little worried about the sigmoidoscopy enema procedure - I have been sent a huge bottle to squirt up my bottom before doing a mega bowel emptying then drive an hour to hospital for an 8.45am appointment . I hope all is fine internally, I'm guessing it's to rule out anything else untoward, but I'm not too worried at the mo.

Let me know how your appt goes. I'm ok about no surgery at the moment, but am worried about what might happen / how it might worsen later down the line. I don't want to be fecally incontinent by the time I'm 45

[Blahblahblahyadayadayada]

Sorry to hear about the problems everyone has been having. I also have the wiping issue, some faecal urgency, some (minor) wind issues and "passive soiling" ie the wiping issue/never being quite fully clean.
Also have what I can only describe as an easily irritated perineum, some areas of soreness and numbness vaginally. For some reason, I also have discomfort further forward where I didn't tear in the clitoral area. It's not there all the time but is sensitive to touch- maybe this is vulvodynia? . So dtd is not pleasant and hence I don't bother. I get some pain when we try near the entrance and the numbness doesn't help internally!. It feels like the scar tissue pushes into my rectum when we do try! I've had the endo anal scans etc and my pelvic floor muscles are ok strength wise. But it saddens me that I can't enjoy a physical relationship with my DH.

[MajorClanger123]

I'm sorry to hear that blah. Have you been offered surgery at all?

I don't think I have any sensation problems as such, but I do have big worries around sex and being clean down below beforehand - so for example there is absolutely nothing spontaneous happening as I have to be showered / bathed immediately beforehand in case I have any leak / wiping issues. Kind of takes the fun and spontenaeity out of it. Plus I often have to decline my poor DH's advances due to having not showered before bed.

What does the endo anal scan involve? I am not sure if I'm having it done immediately after the sigmoidoscopy - appt only mentions that and not an ultrasound but I assumed both would be done at same appt, although perhaps not.

[MajorClanger123]

Ps to clarify - I do shower daily, first thing in morning, then usually bowel movements later, so by bed..... sorry, didn't want anyone thinking I'm not showering daily

[CactusPlant2017]

Blah, such horrible symptoms-I know too well. Although I've not had the clitoris sensitivity. Have you been to your GP?

MajorClanger- I share your 'being clean' concern and I would also be concerned about being intimate without showering.

Are either of you ladies working? I'm off on maternity at the moment but I dread the thought of being back at work with these symptoms!! If you are, how do you deal with it day to day?

Regarding my appointment on Wednesday, I was suspicious that the letter from the hospital for next week's appointment didn't mention any tests. The consultant that I saw privately, asked my GP to refer me for these two tests so I assumed that was what I was going for.

So today, I called the hospital and asked what the appointment entails and they confirmed it just a consultation! So I'm right back to the beginning!

On Wednesday the consultant will confirm what the other consultant has diagnosed and then, no doubt refer me for the tests that I should have had on Wednesday and then who knows what!! I'm just devastated!

I don't want to sound dramatic but I'm so extremely upset by all this and I can't believe this has happened to me and I keep wondering what went wrong and why this happened 😭😭 All these thoughts are keeping me up at night and I just feel rubbish!

[Blahblahblahyadayadayada]

I hear your frustrations. I had my tear 3.5 years ago and went to work after 10 months. I keep wet wipes in my bag or locker in case of a bowel movement at work. The urgency did get better with time and is not as bad as it was in the initial months. I'd say it is worst with the first bowel movement which thankfully usually occurs at home. Definitely keep up with the pelvic floor exercises and don't hesitate to ask for physio referral.
For me, there is n surgery to improve the anal sphincters and I have seen a colorectal consultant as well.
I really should ask my GP about my other issues; I've been avoiding it/too shy, but I might bring it up at my postnatal check (I had a c section 3 weeks ago). I also need to arrange for physio follow up- the physiotherapist might be able to do some scar tissue massage. I don't really know; I'm also frustrated that this far down the line I am still seeing physios!

[CactusPlant2017]

Blah- Thank you for your reassurance. It's the passing of wind that also concerns and embarrases me. Do you have that too?

Definitely bring it up. My symptoms started in November and I waited until January before seeing the GP. I wish I had gone earlier and I may be closer to an answer!

[Blahblahblahyadayadayada]

Yes I get the wind issue as well. It's not terrible but it's not funny somehow as a woman, even though wind is generally hilarious with a three year old and a husband! I allow myself to let rip where possible but use my pelvic floor squeeze to hold it if I can when I don't want to pass wind. If I can feel it coming then I can make an effort to hold it in but it is the ones where I don't know it's coming when I get caught out. Does that make sense?
I'll mention other issues to my GP as I've been rehearsing what I need to mention for long enough!

[CactusPlant2017]

Blah-that is exactly how my wind problem is! If it's unexpected then it will pass out! 😱 I'm dreading going back to work for that reason.

Please keep us posted and let us know how you get on after you have seen the doctor. Good luck.

[MajorClanger123]

Hi ladies, gosh that sounds very frustrating cactus, when you're expecting tests not just a meeting with consultant.
I am working park time but in my husbands business (so if I let rip in our office it's only in front of him) plus I also do freelance work from home so no worries about coping in an office environment. The colorectal consultant asked me about wind and I kind of laughed and brushed it aside, but thinking about it, I frequently end up with horrible uncomfortableness because I've been desperately trying to hold it in. Or worse, I do break wind in front of close friends when I can't help it. It's so unladylike and embarrassing , I can't stand it.

[Blahblahblahyadayadayada]

HAve you ladies had input from a specialist women's health physiotherapist? Although, they're likely to just recommend the pelvic floor exercises. They can, however, check to see if you're doing them properly.
Do either of you ladies have issues with your scarring?

[CactusPlant2017]

Blah- I haven't seen a Physio yet. I am sure, regardless of the gap in my sphincter muscle being too wide to ever be fixed by exercises, that the consultant will recommend that's what I do first.

Not sure about scarring, I've only had one check up of the injury, that was on my six week check up.