why do parents refuse their baby / childs vaccines?

[bethjoanne]

in the uk we are so lucky to have an nhs---- doctors ,nurses ,treatments and vaccines we should be so grateful.in third world countries babies /children die of terrible diseases and also our relatives eg great great great grandmas would have done anything to have their children vaccinated IT WOULD HAVE BEEN THERE DREAM TO HAVE AN NHS AND VACCINES, instead they had to witness their child suffer i dread to think what they went through.
what country you are born in is luck of the drawer.
we should be grateful for medical care and vaccines available to us and have our baby/ child vaccinated.
i cannot believe some parents are so selfish and ruthless putting others at risk and starting an epidemic what happened in history and other third world countries .when the nhs is here to help and protect us now.x
ps think about babies 0 day old to 15 months who are too young to be covered /vaccinated.10 babies have died recently from whooping cough.also there has been 2 well known footballers had meningitis recently so there is reported cases,surely this needs nipping in the bud .
why are parents still refusing to vaccinate?

I did wonder if it was a sly dig at his "look at me " personal image!

I happen to think there might be a link. And would err on the side of caution. If this makes me an idiot. Then so be it. We shall see in the years to come if medical opinion has a change of mind.

We have seen in the 10 years following the 'research' that there is no link. How much longer do you need?
'I think there may be a link'! Really? What are you basing that nugget on knowledge on?

14 years actually and no change has happened. No one has ever reproduced Wakefield (and not for lack of trying). There is just no connection between MMR and autism. He lied (maybe to himself, too, who knows, pet hypotheses are difficult to let go of).

Sorry no idea why I put 10. Dd is now 16 and it was about the time she was due mmr

I am basing my opinion on the parent's who are totally convinced that MMR caused their child's autism. And that discredited doctor. I don't seek to convince others but I am just sayinig what I think personally.

Can't even use the apostrophe now!!

To answer the OP, I did not get DD vaccinated on medical grounds after discussion with her paediatrician and other specialists. To vaccinate her would be dangerous and potentially life threatening for her. HTH.

It is not like saying the peanut allergy doesn't exist, at all. We categorically know that peanut allergies do exist and the reaction can be fatal.

Saying the MMR causes autism is like saying clouds cause acne because some people got their first outbreak on a cloudy day.

Posie, I think that sort of statement (your final statement) is why many people are so distrustful, they know (from statements like that) that if they do "as they're told" and have the vaccine, and if there's a bad reaction, they'll be treated as if they're really stupid.

Actually Pagwatch put it better than me: "A fear often born of a dreadful unforeseen reaction to a vaccine and one which is made worse, more scary, by the casual dismissal of Doctors and then posters on here."

I agree with you there Brycie. I think parents' fears are real, for the most part. I just dont think they're justified.

Thirty odd years ago doctors were saying there was no link between diet and cancer. Now we know that diet is a factor in some cancers. So medical opinion changes. I don't think parent's fear of vaccine reaction is unjustified or parents are imagining a link between their child's autism and the MMR.

People also didn't think that smoking causes lung cancer. Then epidemioogical studies started coming out showing that there was a causal association but the tobacco companies insisted that they were only statistics and that since there was speculation over the theory, cigarettes are safe. They ignored or hypercriticised the whole growing body of evidence demonstrating a link between lung cancer and smoking but pulled out the odd study which didn't show one, however flawed they may be.

What's happening with vaccines is the same but in reverse. Study after study demonstrates how safe vaccines are (or rather they're not linked to x bad outcome). But certain movements and the people who are persuaded by them have decided that vaccines are bad, so they employ the exact same tactics as the tobacco companies did.

Itnit that this hasn't been studied and we just don't know - it has and we do. the overwhelming weight of evidence is in favour of vaccine safety apart from a very very small few for whom the risk is greater eg immunocompromised children.

I live in a country where immunisations are mandatory. If your DC are not vaccinated, they cannot go to school.

ElaineBenes of course they are justified. I said "Why many people are so distrustful, they know .. that if they do "as they're told" and have the vaccine, and if there's a bad reaction, they'll be treated as if they're really stupid."

That's the fear I was talking about, and going by this thread that's completely justified. Perhaps some people are reassured by the airy dismissal of those who say their children's problems were caused by such and such a vaccine. But others might think, actually if that's my child, I'll be on the other side of that "airy dismissal", no one will listen to me and they'll treat me as if I'm stupid.

The other fear, the fear of a reaction, which you say is unjustified, well that's affected by the same thing. People will say, well if nobody listens to those parents, how do we know that the numbers are accurate, as people say things like "it's the same as acne on a cloudy day" or whatever, when it's of course nothing of the sort.

And actually the link I posted was about actual children who were actually damaged by a strain of the MMR vaccine that governments had already invested in and continued to use even after they knew it would damage a certain percentage of children (And indeed, had already done so.)

They were prepared to keep using it because, to them, your child is just a statistical likely-hood that they are willing to play the odds with.

I don't happen to believe that the way that any government behaves any differently now And while statistical chance is something they might feel justified in playing with, to me, my child is not just a statistic or acceptable odds . I"m not willing to sacrifice another one on the alter of the Procrustean bed

I'm neither paranoid nor a believer in conspiracy theories; merely someone who keeps a close eye on the behaviour of the governmental beast who always acts in a pragmatic manner.

gah obviously can't type before caffeine.

*I think that mmr probably doesn't cause autism, but could be the straw that breaks the camel's back for a child with a severely compromised immune system & a possible genetic predisposition to asds & allergies."

Not entirely related but if a child had a severely compromised immune system, you would know about it because they'd have been very ill previously. Thus, surely you'd seek out an expert opinion before pressing ahead?

I do agree with your point though and have said on other threads that perhaps 'vaccine damaged' (only in inverted commas because I hate that term) children would have regressed anyway due to another virus.

There are several posters on this thread who are confounding criticism of fears with criticism of reasoning. I don't see many concerned posters looking for reassurance. I see several posters who say they have cogent, considered, researched views which justify not vaccinating. In such cases, I and others have sometimes resorted to calling a spade a spade. I realise this doesn't go down well with some, but people express themselves differently, and accepting this makes life less trying.

Brycie. I said the fears aren't justified since there is no scientific evidence that there is any reason to be fearful. How this message is communicated is important but different. Which bad outcome are you thinking of anyway?

Jo, you're quite right. Someone coming and asking for advice, expressing fear, is totally different to the people who proudly state that they are now enlightened, would never go with the 'herd', are extremely 'well informed', and have done hours of 'research'. They seem rather proud of themselves for being so clever tbh.

ElaineBenes, that's not the fear I was talking about and I explained. I thnk you have done what JoThe Hot said and you have confounded that with a fear of reaction. I'm talking about the fear that people have, that if their child has a bad reaction, it will be dismissed and they will be called stupid. That is a very justified fear and it might be one of the reasons people take into account when deciding whether to do it or not.

Actually probably the greater fear is not that they will be called stupid, but that the reaction will be casually dismissed for example comparing it to "acne on a cloudy day", the earlier poster said. Now that does happen a lot, so that also is a justified fear.