why do parents refuse their baby / childs vaccines?

[bethjoanne]

in the uk we are so lucky to have an nhs---- doctors ,nurses ,treatments and vaccines we should be so grateful.in third world countries babies /children die of terrible diseases and also our relatives eg great great great grandmas would have done anything to have their children vaccinated IT WOULD HAVE BEEN THERE DREAM TO HAVE AN NHS AND VACCINES, instead they had to witness their child suffer i dread to think what they went through.
what country you are born in is luck of the drawer.
we should be grateful for medical care and vaccines available to us and have our baby/ child vaccinated.
i cannot believe some parents are so selfish and ruthless putting others at risk and starting an epidemic what happened in history and other third world countries .when the nhs is here to help and protect us now.x
ps think about babies 0 day old to 15 months who are too young to be covered /vaccinated.10 babies have died recently from whooping cough.also there has been 2 well known footballers had meningitis recently so there is reported cases,surely this needs nipping in the bud .
why are parents still refusing to vaccinate?

Sdeuchars

You have also demonstrated my point. That article you linked to was awful and would never have made it into an epidemiological journal, you can see it at a first glance, it's cringeworthy! But because you don't understand epidemiology and research methods, you link to it as evidence that vaccines aren't all good.

Brycie

I don't know one anti vaccinator (against medical advice) who is scientifically qualified. I know many who claim to know many others but that's different.

Intelligent -yes. Scientifically trained - no. Hubris - plenty!

It could also be because better off parents are more able to afford single vaccines. I think articles like Ben Goldacre's show how pointless it is up to a certain extent to argue about science proving this or that, because there is so much that is not published and not available to us, so parents do the best with what theyv'e got, and it's their right to it. I vaccinated my children for them, not the next door's neighbour's children's sake, my primary responsibility is to my child.

No, all research is not created equal and the ability to critically appraise the research is essential. As you showed, most parents are not in a position to do so and generally the non vaccinators rely on the crankosphere for their information. For areas where I am not in a position to understand the research, I look at the recommendations of people who do, not a crankosphere website.

Mosschops30 I think the only way one could engage with you is to ask why, when lokking at local government statistics on the take-up of vaccination, the worse-off/lower standard of education areas have a higher take-up percentage than the better-off areas with parents with a higher level of education?

www.enfield-observatory.org.uk/enfieldobservatory/

(The site appears to be down at the moment, but I've spent several happy hours wading through the stats.)

I don't think Ben Goldacre is crankosphere, and he is saying we can't rely on the science produced by what might normally be considered reliable sources. Also don't forget most people get their information from the internet nowadays including all of the reliable sources, so you can't really say to people don't even research it yourself. It's even worse than telling people they can't choose, to tell people they can't even look into it themselves?

There is no proof that MMR doesn't cause autism. And I have read about some parents who are certain that it does cause autism. Would it be wrong to say the jury is still out on this. Although in the UK doctors seem to have decided that it is safe.

I think you've misunderstood Ben gold actress and his message.

Bruffin linked to an excellent list of websites, with information anchored in science. That's where I go for info.

Yes, you are completely wrong to say the jury is still out. The jury is back and conferred a unanimous vote, as sure as can be on the available scientific evidence, of no relationship.

There's no proof that fairies don't exist.
The burden of proof is on the people claiming that autism is caused by MMR.
The things MMR vaccinates against are, arguably, more dangerous than autism. Even if a link was proven, which it isn't and can't be, the threat of the alternative outweighs the risk of the vaccine.

GlaxoSmithKline, one of the vaccine manufacturers is the 5th biggest company on the FTSE, it employes 97000 people, has £27billion annual income and £41 billion in assets.
Elaine- are you really going to deny that they are a powerful voice in the government's ear?

So why hasn't the government rolled out the chicken pox vaccine?

Surely three separate vaccines would be more profitable than just the mmr?

And if vaccine programs are successful, eradication can occur such as with smallpox which really reduces profits!

Based on your theory, every govt in the western world is in the clutches of evil big pharma and maybe sabotaging their own vaccine campaigns to ensure eradication doesn't take place.

What a load of tosh!

I'm sorry but I am not convinced. It's like saying that peanut allergy doesn't exist as most people aren't allergic to peanuts and the fact that some people have a reaction after eating peanuts is just a coincidence. This doesn't convince me I'm afraid.

No one has said that vaccine damage doesn't exist but it is extremely rare to have a reaction which causes lasting damage - even more so with modern vaccines. And, unlike peanuts where you could go through life not eating them with no I'll effects, not vaccinating is even more risky.

Well I dont'; want to do this forever but this is what he says is simple terms

"The doctors prescribing the drugs don't know they don't do what they're meant to. Nor do their patients. The manufacturers know full well, but they're not telling."

Elainebenes sorry I have just read another of your posts about intelligence and scientific training. A lot of scientifically trained people disagree about this too and there are doctors and paediatricians who use their right to choose not to have the full scheduel or any of it. Would you call them cranks as well, I think that would be more difficult.

I said I personally don't know any scientifcially trained people who refuse caccines. Just my personal experience.

Doctors can be wrong as well - look at Wakefield! I'd rather see what groups of experts recommend.

So basically vaccines are like any other medicine.

If you were pushing for better regulation of big pharma and more transparency, I'd be behind you 100%. But to suggest that vaccines are different than any other preventative medical product is ridiculous and to also suggest that doctors should stop prescribing medication is equally silly.

But that doesn't mean there aren't any, I wouldn't say it was really the point that you don't know any. If you're not a doctor (I don't know!) you're effrectively saying that you know better than those doctors and paediatricians what is better for their children. Just as sometimes people who don't vaccinate fully, think they know better than their doctors about what is best for THEIR children. Which just goes back to my point, that everyone should be free to choose, rather than be told what to do.

But I'm not suggesting that doctors shoudl stop prescribing medication, I'm just using that tosupport my point that we should have freedom of choice, because so many sources of information are unreliable. Doctors have years of training but they don't have years of training in xxx drug, they rely on the mnaufacturer, and the manufacturer doesn't always tell the whole truth. So a patient might have very good reasons for taking his or her advice as only one part of the picture, as it probably comes direct from the manufacturer, who can't necessarily be trusted, if what Ben Goldacre says is true (did you mean to say Gold Actress before?!)

mosschops30 - I will be shot for that, but I think that is because the mothers in the deprived area have real worries in life (what you observe is something all my paediatrician friends also say). And that is not to diss the parents with children who had bad vaccine reactions, but it is striking how "mainstream" vaccine-criticism appears an upper middle class phenomenon (in the US: a white upper middle class thing: children enrolled in Waldorf school, yada).

Actually you're lucky that with vaccines there are plenty of studies by independent researchers demonstrating vaccine safety - and many who are trying to demonstrate its not! Vaccines, in that respect, are actually much safer than other medication.

And no, gold actress was iPad autocorrect!

Yes but who is independent, I watched a whole interview with David Salisbury who is the head of immunisation about two days ago and he referred to the comittee on vaccination as "independent" when quite a few of its members have financial interests with manufacturers. I'm not trying to say, it's right to not vaccinate, or wrong to not vaccinate, I'm saying it's up to parents to make the decision based on the information they can get their hands on, as this kind of science is not the kind that says, yes the sun is 93 million miles away - it's the kind of science which is open to distortion, misrepresentation, omission and so on. It's the sort of science in short where you can't rely on the experts, you have to choose who you trust.

vivian your post is idiotic! There is no proven link between mmr and autism. Wakefield research was a joke. A mahoosive study has been done in Japan with thousands and no link was found.