What is disability?

[Kendodd]

Watching the Paralympics made me wonder. Oscar Pistorius for example, how could anyone describe him as disabled, and yet the man has no legs, he couldn't be much more disabled!

Ellie Simmonds, she's another one, I don't know if dwarfism even is a disability, but if I'm ever drowning I hope she happens to be walking by to save me.

Anyway they both seem fitter and more able than I ever have been and yet are classified as disabled. I know they are both extraordinary examples and comparing them to the average disabled person is like comparing me to Jessica Ennis.

Sorry SmallClanger, I should have noticed you there :) I agree with you that we should celebrate everyone's achievements. Why do you think there is such a backlash towards wanting competitiveness? Is it because of the cabinet trying to model all schools on Eton? Or are there other reasons too?

Thanks ladyindisguise! It's nice to know that we're not just shouting into the void.

Sorry Devient - only because I was reading an article about it yesterday (the paralympics TV rights bidding system) so it was fresh in my mind. and its probably the only thing I have real knowledge of in this whole debate . I think it would have been much better because the sports could be spread out much more, rather than the channel 4 coverage which seems a bit frenzied at times, jumping from sport to sport.

I too have a son that wouldnt qualify for the paralympics, and would fit into the SO catagories. Maybe my world is a bit small.

lol Vager, I started to realise that when you didn't take offence at what I had said, no need to apologize.

MMMarmite, I'm not completely sure why things have gone this way, quite suddenly. There is a lot of golden-ageism being bandied about, people rabbitting on about how everything was better in the 1950s before these progressives came along and ruined everything by wanting things to be, shock horror, fairer.

Those in power are genuinely threatened by things like feminism, disability rights and progressive social theory, as they challenge the status quo, and their right to lord it over everyone else. I know that's a bit vague, but I think it is true.

I'm not sure why it has got such a hold of public imagination though. A silly question in present company, obviously, but how many of us know someone who has a physical disability, a more complex disability, SEN, chronic illness, mental health problems? Even if it's someone we don't know well, we all know OF someone with one of these things, and probably know others without knowing their status regarding any of the above. Add to that, the many other categories of person who, despite having no specific label-able problem, do not flourish in competitive environments. Yet you still hear people going on and on about competition being good for development, "character building", necessary for learning, blah blah blah. Then we get into work, where competition and retaining a competitive edge are sucking the life out of our jobs and making our employment seriously unstable.

Maybe it's because we are in a rubbish financial state and it's easy to blame the former government, even though they were only Labour in name and started this stuff?

TheSmallClanger just to clarify before I post proper(as no doubt I have the wrong end of the stick)
when you talk about inclusive, do you mean in sport or education, or both?

Education.
Sport is a bit different.

I am very anti inclusion in schools for kids like my dd.
imo for severely disabled children in just leads to exclusion

It's very dependent on the individual though, threesocks.
Two out of three of my children, no inclusion doesn't work.
One of them though is thriving in mainstream.

LiD thank you so much for acknowledging us x

Ok this thread has moved on since I posted yesterday 3socks it sounds really difficult for you and your daughter sometimes you feel like banging your head against a brick wall with stuff that goes on
, when I was in school I was 1 of the first disabled children to be intergrated into mainstream education I am not as severl;y disabled as some of the children others have mentioned on here , anyway
I really don't think inclusion works for all to a degree it does and it meant I wasn't left out of my community (does that make sense ? ) but high school was just shit for me and i feel if I went to a school for disabled/special needs children I would have done so much better educationally , as I had medical problemsand needed personal care at school and was bullied every day for 4 years, which left me with a poor education inclusion isn't for all imo

MrsJay, maybe mainstream was the right place academically and more could of been done to help and support you in that setting to achieve higher if that makes sense.

My DS has been at special school since 2 year old and as the years have gone on it got harder to get him there, so for the last 3 year he's been stuck at home with only recent minimal support.

Inclusion is exclusion for him totally, whether that be inclusive with NT or SN.

MrsJay, maybe mainstream was the right place academically and more could of been done to help and support you in that setting to achieve higher if that makes sense.

Probably I do think a lot of the teasing hindered me iyswim

Dev I am sorry your sons school isnt supporting you and your son, I left school in 1986 seems things havn't changed much since then

Sorry if the discussion has moved on but I work with a lady with Spina Bifida who doesn't class herself as disabled despite being a full time wheelchair user. She says that her wheelchair to her is no different to someone having to wear glasses. It's an aid to living. However, society and the state classes her as disabled and she is entitled - quite rightly - to claim for all the help and assessments and benefits available.

I have quite complex joint, muscle and nerve problems and have chronic pain problems that leave me unable to move by the end of the day. Because I am stubborn and choose to work full time, despite these problems being permanent and life long, I am not entitled to any help and am not classed as disabled. I wouldn't self define as disabled, however, I do self define as a person who can't function in the same way as the next person in the street who doesn't have the same health limitations as me simply because on bad days i can't walk, dress or wash, let alone go to work.

The definition my workplace uses for disability is "long term (over 12 months) physical or health condition that affects your ability to fulfill your duties" under this definition I qualify as disabled, however, my colleague says that her condition DOESN'T affect her ability to fulfill her duties, the only things she needs are a disabled toilet and a lift that works to get to the office.

About time they standardised it really!!

Different people cope differently and the government are running a risk of sidelining a huge group of people by making the benefits a tick box exercise. By virtue of a diagnosis, in many areas regardless of how it affects you, certain conditions trigger automatic rights to certain help.

Oh forgot to add that I have my desk fully adapted through Access to Work so that I am able to work. My colleague has simply moved her office chair away and carries on as if nothing was different!

Everyone is an individual!

By virtue of a diagnosis, in many areas regardless of how it affects you, certain conditions trigger automatic rights to certain help.

and it's this why my DS is not getting the help he needs and he is severely disabled, challenging and complex.

I don't see myself as disabled every day though It really doesn't define who I am as a person it is just something I have to live with

Coming to this late.

I think a lot of the reason for the apparently defensive answers is because living with disability/sn is so bloody bloody tiring, it feels too much on top of everything else to then have to explain and educate others.

Also that it's not like any of us had any special or prior knowledge of sn before we had it thrust into our lives. Fgs I am not an expert on anything other than my ds. Why, on top of everything else, should I suddenly have to take on the role of educator?

I didn't sign up for my child to have asd, and we're just living through it with no manuals at all. Each day is a learning curve for us, just as it would be for everyone. I don't feel that inclined to educate people about anything other than what we're living through on a daily basis. Which people don't really want to know about. I am quite frequently asked things like "how did you know ds had asd" or "how does it manifest itself"? When I start to actually answer honestly their eyes glaze over as I talk about the boring grinding reality of fighting for suitable education, fighting against school, local authorities, putting up with stares in the street, trying to anticipate his every move, dealing with new stuff every day as he grows older and we go into unchartered territory, coaxing him into using a new toilet when he is doubled over in pain from the need to go but too anxious to. etc etc etc... What they probably want to hear is salacious juicy stuff about weird things ds does

I do spend a large amount of time educating and explaining to people all the time. It is exhausting.

So sadly, OP you've asked a genuinely interested and thoughtful question, but have unwittingly stumbled into a field of very tired and struggling people. We probably come across as shouty when actually it's (in my case) more of a wearied sigh tbh.

Sorry for ranty essay

Also think that if people do want an insight into the world of disability and sn, they could learn an awful lot by lurking on the SN board.

Part of the problem about education imo is lumping children with a huge and disparate group of disabilities together in SS.

to be fair I think my idea of sn schools is coloured by dd's, it is one of the best and has done so much for her and us,
I do realise inclusion works for some children,

Does depend on the type (and severity) of SN though doesn't it.

mrsjay, sorry you you had such a horrid time at 2ndary school.

mrsjay, sorry you you had such a horrid time at 2ndary school.

thank you love appreciated It was a long while ago and I don't carry it with me but I do remember it was just rubbish

Cost may be a factor sigh
Look at these costs.

Me being at home saves the state nine thousand pounds a week. Now if I am forced out to work then it'll actually cost more.

Makes a mockery of 'austerity'... the whole thing is Tory ideology. The whole disability hate shebang.