What is disability?

[Kendodd]

Watching the Paralympics made me wonder. Oscar Pistorius for example, how could anyone describe him as disabled, and yet the man has no legs, he couldn't be much more disabled!

Ellie Simmonds, she's another one, I don't know if dwarfism even is a disability, but if I'm ever drowning I hope she happens to be walking by to save me.

Anyway they both seem fitter and more able than I ever have been and yet are classified as disabled. I know they are both extraordinary examples and comparing them to the average disabled person is like comparing me to Jessica Ennis.

then the thread originally mentioned the paralympics which Glitter's, 3socks and my kids wouldn't be allowed to compete in due to the nature of their disabilities.

Very true.
People with mental and physical disability combined cannot compete.
That's all three of mine, and actually pretty much every kid I know.

How many parents have often contemplated suicide because the big wide world out there won't accept their child and their need for help?

Why is our wish for an education, a level playing field and acceptance for our children seen as unreasonable, entitled and selfish?

It isn't by me. You are just trying to do what other parents do, in different and difficult circumstances.

Why can't we and our children be accepted for who we are? Why is our contribution to this world not as valid? Why are we a drain? A scourge?

You aren't to me. A world where everyone has the opportunity to contribute to the world in their own way, is what we should be trying to achieve.

This isn't me denying your experiences, it's me nodding in agreement.

oh Glitter I don't need reminded of all the times I have come close. You have to tell yourself it's just another statistic less they have to deal with but the impact on your family will be immense. Plus I believe you or I would not be at peace, we would be such troubled souls worrying about our homes, our families.

I think it is a fair question to ask about disability though. A friend recently said to me that they didn't think of me as having a disability as 'I seemed to manage perfectly well'. And I do manage, but I'm in severe pain all the time, have lots of restrictions on things I can do (and I never thought I'd look enviously at people with upper limb amputations as they can do more than I can with a exisiting but non functioning arm) etc.
Some of that is the social model - when I go into the office, there are heavy fire doors everywhere which I can't go through if carrying a drink or anything else - and some is the medical model of the pain and exhaustion, plus pain from overwork in my other arm.

And I do compete (at v low level) in dressage, but can't cycle down the road as theres no way of attaching my arm to a bike. Can drive off road (thanks Land Rover), but not put my hair up. Cook, but not cut my meat up to eat it.

To me it's fairly simple, it means that the person cannot (in their natural state ie without prosthetic limb, wheelchair, or in the case of a learning difficulty or other neural impairment or condition, a carer/helper) engage in activities which others perform without help. For example a wheelchair user is disabled because without the wheelchair they are not able to be fully mobile on their own. For someone with ld or autism, without their helper/carer they cannot function fully in society to the same degree as others without the condition.
I have eds which for some is a disability, but for me, other than horse riding and very strenuous exercise which most in society don't perform, it doesn't affect me to the point where I need assistance, therefore I dont consider it a disability, more a minor annoyance. It is however considered
a disability in the Olympic sport of dressage, so should I ever wish to I could compete as a disabled rider in the Paralympics in the least disabled category.

I am a bit luckier than glitta and threesocks- my spectacular crrash into oblivion was 10 months ago, due to good GP I am now more well than I have been in yeras. Mind, without her (GP before ahd refused help) I wouldn;t be ehre now, I state that as absolute fact. I had it all planned, right down to when the boys would be best able to cope and DH's business best able to survive.

exhaustion, grief, hopelessness but most of all an absolute beleif that the world would be betetr had I not existed.

As for Gold and achievements- the trick is to change how you define that, then ALL people can achieve. DS1 has achieved, he asked his Base for a traffic light system for his anger. DS3 achieved, he got pupil of the term last term- only found out this week! He attaends a BAse like ds1, a different one, a 12 person unit whicdh he rarely leaves.

DS4 achieved: he went into town yesterday without a panic atatck, ds2 (SEN as opposed to SN) did his homework when asked and has made a friend at his new school.

These are not olympic level, but they matter. They just don't get recognised by the uber-sompetitive academia mommas in the village wher we live.

Rogersmelly quite.

(I have a friend severely disabled by EDS, it's such a spectrum isn't it?)

it's not ahrd- if your condition prevents you competing at the olympics or training in the same way then paras or special olympics is for you. I don;t like the special / para divide BTW- it serves to hide complex needs.

I have mentioned all that Peachy and listed the FAQ's

Peachy, that is an interesting post. Something I am afraid of with this current backlash against inclusive, less competitive education is that achievements like the ones your DCs have will be disregarded. Achieving a small goal is still an achieving a goal.

Most big goals are actually lots of little ones stuck together.

Oh dear, it all seem to go wrong and get all shouty. Sorry for asking/thinking about it, I'll bow out now.

it is a fair question as long as you don't mind a fair answer,
but the op is bowing out because it got "shouty"
ffs so posting reality is not allowed

I am about as far from shouty and hostile as it gets.

I'm actually quite weary and well... sad... Is the reality of what it's like to live with a disability that unpalatable that people turn away?

Because the anger, the hostility and the bitterness AT&T all born from the way we and our children are treated, the way society worsens the effects of the actual disability with its attitude.

I actually find the ops last post quite bizarre,
what did she want from this thread?
everyone saying that being disabled or caring for a disabled person is easy as long as you have state of the ark equipment??
that isn't the reality, that is the glamour of TV

I'm quite amused by shouty TBH, my post is so not shouty!

reality maybe, shouty no.

you are never shouty peachy

I find it frustrating how two non-disabled people have decided to bow out of this discussion (and possibly others who didn't post to say so) so it's just left with carers and disabled people preaching to the converted. I don't see this thread as shouty - yes there were some frustrated, sad and angry posts, those feelings are inevitable for anyone affected by this issue, and many people eloquently explained why they felt that way. There's been lots of interesting and informative discussion.

It seems many non-disabled people claim they want to learn, but when they don't get the reaction they expected, they're not willing to look at things from our point of view and continue the discussion - they decide this discussion is too hard work, or we're too irrational to talk too, and bow out. Or perhaps they justify it to themselves by saying they don't want to inadvertently hurt our feelings - but surely the best way to do that would be to listen, discuss and learn, rather than running away from the issue and remaining ignorant, and hence unable to be a helpful ally to disabled people and carers.

Maybe there are people listening and not posting through fear of saying the wrong thing... if you're a lurker, it would be lovely to just tell us that you're listening.

But this is what always happens.

I would consider it context dependent, and I say that as someone who has periods of physical disability but is on the whole healthy- I hate HR forms that say "do you consider yourself disabled," without context. For example, dwarfism wouldn't be a disability if the majority of the population had it and stairs, door handles etc were all at a lower level - therefore is it a disability when the person is in their (adapted) home? I would say no (not in terms of benefits to level the playing ground, of course not, but more in terms of self image or perception IYSWIM). Dwarfism is almost entirely a socially defined disability. When my arthritis flairs up there isn't a societal model that would allow me to live normally without help, so it would be classed more a medical model. Given that we live in society, there should be no differentiation in terms of help received and I dislike any moves towards a purely physical definition.

I can't see why missing a limb is a disability in terms of your TV presenting skills, so don't think that is something we should pat ourselves on the back over as if just tolerating differences is what matters (although it does) but it isn't actually restrictive in that context.

I don't think the current defining of people is very good, but will hopefully keep evolving. I would rather the HR forms said "is there any contexts in which you require adaptations or additional help, for example access, reading, etc?" I would like the lesson from the paralympics not to be that disabled people should try harder because they can still do some things, but "look how great it is when we give people enough help to compensate for their difference" using healthy people as the benchmark. If we can take such diverse differences and allow people to reach a level where they can be deemed equivalent to race each other, we can do more to level out the differences in living a normal life. I am in no way saying it is easy, nowhere, and hope it doesn't come across like that.

after all the paralympics were not worthy of BBC1.

To be fair the BBC did want the paralympics, but were outbid by Channel 4.

I have read the whole thread (as I have done for years now on MN on subjects such as SN and disabilities).
And I would like to thank all the people on here who have taken the time to post.

Because since I started reading these threads I have gained an enormous amount of knowledge about disabilities in general (I have to say I was and probably still am quite naive about it all).
I would not want any of the posters here think that, because no not disabled people are posting, then it means that no one is listening. I did and do (even though I am very aware that I will probably never quite get it).

It's just that I am not sure what else I could add to a subject I know nothing about.

"It seems many non-disabled people claim they want to learn, but when they don't get the reaction they expected, they're not willing to look at things from our point of view and continue the discussion - they decide this discussion is too hard work, or we're too irrational to talk too, and bow out. Or perhaps they justify it to themselves by saying they don't want to inadvertently hurt our feelings - but surely the best way to do that would be to listen, discuss and learn, rather than running away from the issue and remaining ignorant, and hence unable to be a helpful ally to disabled people and carers."

I'm still here. A couple of people HAVE been a bit shouty, but what's new on MN, really?
I made a comment above that got a bit lost, about the backlash against inclusivity and lessened competition in education. Is this a useful thing to discuss?
I think all children have the right to be able to celebrate/appreciate their achievements, no matter how small, or how long they took, or how they compare to those of others.

Vager then if that is right I apologise to the BBC. Due to the nature of my sons disabilities I am not in the real world much, however I am more curious to know what air time the special olympics have. DS is more suited to these and wouldn't be allowed in the paralympics. I am also thinking if thats the only thing you want to quote, what a small world you must live in.

sorry worded that wrong............seems strange for that small comment to be singled out with everything else that has been said.