What is disability?

[Kendodd]

Watching the Paralympics made me wonder. Oscar Pistorius for example, how could anyone describe him as disabled, and yet the man has no legs, he couldn't be much more disabled!

Ellie Simmonds, she's another one, I don't know if dwarfism even is a disability, but if I'm ever drowning I hope she happens to be walking by to save me.

Anyway they both seem fitter and more able than I ever have been and yet are classified as disabled. I know they are both extraordinary examples and comparing them to the average disabled person is like comparing me to Jessica Ennis.

to the people who keep banging on about how we need these threads so that people can learn about disability.
I agree that it should be talked about, but please remember that on mn there has been so many disability bashing threads that have been allowed in the name of "education" that I think it is no wonder that people who live in a "sn world" are defensive.
you can't have it both ways imo

Threesocksmorgan, what do you mean we cant have it both ways?

I am interested to learn more about the view of people with disabilities, and I admit that as a parent of a child that does not have a disability I am ignorant to alot of things that you go through, however if the instant response to any question is met with hostility I admit I tend to give up on the thread.

I have to admit my dp and I had a very similar conversation to the original post a few days ago, we were saying that compared to us Pistorius is super human, not because he does or doesn't have legs but simply because he is so bloomin fast. I would say that the paralympics have changed my views on disability.
I don't know anyone that wears a prosphetic (sp?) limb and the idea that it causes pain never occured to me because I have no experience of it.
That is why to just chat to people in different situations is good, it opens all of our eyes, I hope you can see that not every question is disabled bashing.

what I mean is you can't have a forum that allows disablist threads to stand and then expect people with disabilities or children with disabilities to suddenly open up.
of course some will, but people like me who have been shafted by mn hq, will always come across as unhelpful and well suspicious.

Some disabilities have no impact directly on health. My ds's asd does not come with seizures unlike many others. He will probably lose his teeth early because if his food obsessions though.
But many do. Dwarfism for eg can be linked to many painful and progressive conditions. I get the impression many people see it as just being small.

I know people with the condition who are now wheelchair users.

I subscribe to the social model because if society was more accommodating people would be less affected by their disabilities.

The medical model sees disability as something to be fixed and eradicated. Every child born with a disability is a failure of science to have prevented it.

Quality of life is measured against the standard of straight, strong, free from deformity and limitation.

The main thing to remember is that people with disabilities are not a homogenous lump. Each person is affected differently according to their individual circumstances. If you have met one person with a disability, you have met one person with a disability.

threesocks, i do understand that you have been upset by threads on here in the past, however if you intentionally want to come across as unhelpful what good are you doing? for attitudes to change we as a whole need to be able to talk about issues to be able to learn. I have seen loads of threads around these issues which i would have liked to have asked questions on but didn't because i was afraid of being shouted at for being offensive, even though that was not my intention. The disabled in our society have been pretty much hidden for a long time, things like the paralympics have brought these issues to people minds and surely if more of us can gain some understanding of life with a disability that can only be a good thing?

I can see 3 socks pov.

However from my perspective I don't mind opening up even if you care to judge/harass/condemn etc the way we live and the way we are as quite frankly the disability thats touched our lives is horrendous, worrying, restrictive to name a few and I wouldn't even wish my life on my worst enemy.

Like 3socks being the parent of a disabled child we go through so much more than normal, so much emotion more than normal, so many more fights more than normal, life is tough enough without having to educate those who are making life just that bit more tougher and that includes people we meet along the path of caring for a disabled child, such as profs, medics etc as well as people on forums.

Given the current political and media climate of cuts to NHS and social care and resentment against supposed "scroungers" and the "workshy" it is going to be a potentially sensitive topic suggesting that the disabled aren't disabled, even in such a positive content as this, the paralympics. Unfortunately there have been several threads over the years on here on disability related issues where a minority of posters have made v unpleasant comments that were allowed to stand in the name of education, so posters who are parents/carers of disabled people or disabled posters can be v wary.

I don't have personal experience of physical disability, but of mental health issues. I guess it's complex - yes these disabled athletes excel on the sports field, but that doesn't make them not disabled/impaired etc. E.g. I was reading IIRC about a medal winning paralympic swimmer - she has only been able to train for six weeks, as she had been unwell and/or in hospital for the rest of the year beforehand .

devient, do you feel that questions on site like this makeyour life tougher?
If that is the case i do genuinely apologise. I have only asked in the interest of finding out more/understanding better, it's not to judge.

it's tough when the interpretation is misunderstood but like I said I don't mind discussing my experiences, I don't mind people wanting to know or ask but can see how some feel targeted

Whereas I'd previously have been happy to advise and inform, despite the lack of support us parents of children with disabilities get from MNHQ, I have myself been personally attacked this week as being a 'scrounger', my childrens' diagnoses have been questioned and considered ficticious BY SOMEONE I KNOW.

Strangers on here have not touched me or affected my mental health in any way by calling me 'entitled'. This has adversely affected my mental health though.

I would like to just put that out there. Imagine that every day is a fight just to get an education for your child, for appropriate health services and for financial help just to give your child a nudge in the direction of where other children without disabilities stand. You can't sit back and relax, something is always around the corner threatening your child's education or wellbeing, especially in this time of cuts. The government of the day is against you as is the media. You don't know if you're going to be able to keep a roof over your head next year....

Would you be in the mood to 'educate and inform' - especially on a chat board where the owners don't protect you from the 'scrounger' rhetoric and worse suggestions that you should have terminated your child/ren???

No-one is using disablist insults on this thread. Some people may have used slightly gauche terminology, but everyone seems to be listening.

I try to take an interest in disability issues, partly as a hangover from being a teacher. I feel very strongly that everyone should be allowed to flourish and live up to their potential. I think all people are the sum of their abilities, limitations and past, depending on their situation at the time. We're all part of a big shifting matrix of characteristics, which can help or hinder us depending what we're trying to do.

It can be hard to educate yourself when even asking an innocent question can lead to being shouted down, accused of insulting people and repeatedly told "you just don't understand, do you!!!!"

No, I don't, that's why I asked.

well said Glitter

whereas me this is the only adult chat I get being prisoner in my own home with my disabled child and no one wanting to visit, so don't mind what or how we are discussing it.

ok, thanks for all of your answers, as i said i don't want to upset anyone, even though i do seem to be so i am going to bow out now. good night x

No, nobody is. Yet.
Nobody actually wants to know when it's actually going on though. It's all looks up in air whistling nothing to see heeeeere.....

I can't speak for everyone of course but I don't feel that here is supportive, so yes I'm hostile. Everywhere I go (RL, here and even amongst 'friends') is hostile.

It's a very damaging environment.

and actually ATOS sponsoring the paralympics is the sickest fucking joke ever.... are their examiners there hoping to get some of the athletes off ESA or PIP?

I agree there isn't any support anywhere, I encounter the same there but this is the only 'chat' I have had today, unbelievable as it sounds.

To me that's not unbelievable at all.
I don't think it's unbelievable to anyone in our situation.

"I am interested to learn more about the view of people with disabilities, and I admit that as a parent of a child that does not have a disability I am ignorant to alot of things that you go through, however if the instant response to any question is met with hostility I admit I tend to give up on the thread."

It's great that you want to learn about our views But IMO the reason for this wariness, or hostility, is one of the most important things to learn about Many people with disabilities feel extremely vulnerable at the moment, because the government is massively cutting disability benefits, and disabled people are often presented as scroungers in the media, when in fact the fraud rate for disability benefits is extremely low. Some are worried about not having enough money to live on, or being forced to apply for jobs when they're not remotely well enough to work. Hate crime against people with disabilities is increasing.

People with disabilities and carers are expected to educate people all the time, sometimes people who ought to already know better. Often our basic freedoms depend on us doing this education, explaining why we need these benefits, why we need the disabled parking space though we "don't look disabled", and occasionally people are hostile and refuse to believe the explanation. As the other posters say, there have been some horrible posts on mumsnet recently. And many disabled people have limited energy or spoons for explaining these things. Ideally we would all smilingly answer well-meaning questions, but I think it's understandable that people lack patience and react angrily sometimes.

I know it's hard to post and receive hostility, but I think if you really care about disabled people you should keep reading these threads and listening, even if you have to read through some angry posts that are uncomfortable for you. Otherwise, if we refuse to accept angry posts from disabled people, we put all the burden of not hurting people's feelings on the disabled posters, who have to constantly moderate their tone and not express their pain, whilst the majority, the non-disabled, can say whatever comes into their head without thinking through it's potentially hurtful consequences.

Having said all that, I think all of the discussion on this thread has been pretty respectful and interesting, which is nice :)

It is nice.
Although I'm still waiting for some twat to turn up and start going on about 'made up syndromes' 'free cars' and all that shit.

devient I feel I ought to make this chat more entertaining as it's your only one today
What do clouds wear under their shorts? Thunderpants!

Glitterknickaz you put it so much better than me.(have a hug as I miss you)

I think I am so not in the right place for shit like this.
I have spent the last few days banging my head against a brick wall. trying to get the HST and Taxi company who take my dd to school to understand that she is severely disabled and cannot talk, and to stick her with an escort and taxi driver who she does not know and she doesn't know will make her even more vulnerable.
Add into that the taxi company suggesting I do it.....WT FLYING F yeah cos an able bodied nearly 18 year old has mummy taking them to 6th form.
I have been asked for the measurements off her wheelchair so many times that I now give it in inches just to be annoying.
so coming on here for a break and seeing the question
"what is disability"
pissed me off.
but in the name of education.......

it is.....
always the unexpected. having a baby that never fits into the little red book.
a child that has to go to a school miles from home and is in nappies until secondary school.
being so lonely that the Social worker has to put you in contact with another mum.
being scared as a child in your Childs class has died,
never going out anywhere without planning
telling your child it is ok that once again they have been left out of something.
putting up with all the staring when you are out.
your other child being bullied because his sister is a s
not being able to work because how ever hard you want to and however much X says you can there is no job to fit round the caring you do.
the aches the pains from lifting,
the shit wheelchair your child has and the wait for any equipment.
the DLA forms you have to fill in that make you want to cry.....
being scared as you have to go to another childs funeral

I could go on......but I won't
the reality of having a child with a disability is not glamourous. it is not an easy way to make money.
but as someone said to me today and I 100% agree she is worth it.
so what is disability?

not what you see on the tv

I was laughing at MMM's joke till 3socks replied..............I think we all need a group hug. 3socks you are so right!!

Yeah, hugs for all of you from here.

threesocks x

It's terror, it's anger, it's frustration.

We are not 'other' - we once had the same hopes and dreams for our unborn babies as you did but things didn't work out the way they did for those of you that have children without disabilities.

Why is our wish for an education, a level playing field and acceptance for our children seen as unreasonable, entitled and selfish?

Why can't we and our children be accepted for who we are? Why is our contribution to this world not as valid? Why are we a drain? A scourge?

Think of your dc. If anything happened that meant they would be socially ostracised, derided and have any hope of a future removed from them wouldn't you fight like hell?

And every time there's some cuntbucket on here (sorry, I'm aerated now) spouting bile about how this country 'can't afford' our children's basic rights, things that people take for granted every day, the same few people fight.

Everyone else silently condones it.