Anyone who has a child/children

[holdenmcgroin1979]

that hasn't vaccinated? Starting to think I am the only one as out of my group of friends I am the only one whose children aren't.

I meant the people who you feel are too intellectually impaired to read the research in the way you do that convinces them to vaccinate!?

Interesting 'fact' that "an estimated 5-10% of people who get diptheria will die " when by your figures, 5000 out of 157000 died. Just over 3%.

AndI would wager that ending up in prison as a result of the way society treats individuals with disabilities would be more likely from damage from preventable diseases contracted after not being vaccinated.

I haven't at all with ds2 so far (he is 2). Ds1 had 3 vaccines. Will probably give those 3 to ds2 at some point as well.

Will vaccinate at the appropriate time (puberty) if they have not contracted mumps during childhood, and as appropriate for other things if I believe the benefits outweigh the risks at that particular time. Might even do measles if there is an outbreak somewhere where there is a high chance of them being exposed to it.

My father had polio at 17. Missed university and National Service. Recovered, after a year in hospital. Could never play tennis or football or rugby again. Is now, as an old man, completely crippled and cannot walk. He has never had the career he ought to have had as a result of missing so much.

Why would you take the risk? You can still catch it in parts of the world (South Asia, for example) where your children might travel when they are older.

Sossiges good to question what you read. Let's try a few more sources and see what they say.

Mortality/Morbidity

"Before the introduction of vaccine in the 1920s, the incidence of respiratory disease was 100-200 cases per 100,000 population in the United States and has decreased to approximately 0.001 cases per 100,000 population.

The most widely quoted diphtheria mortality rate is 5-10%. It may reach higher than 20% in children younger than 5 years and adults older than 40 years.

Immunization patterns have the most influence on mortality patterns. Mortality rates have not changed significantly over the past few decades. Most deaths occur on days 3-4 secondary to asphyxia with a pharyngeal membrane or due to myocarditis. Mortality rates of 30-40% have been reported for bacteremic disease"

^Source: emedicine.medscape.com/article/782051-overview#a0199
(Epidemiology tab on left)^

It doesn't say the incidences were reduced by the vaccine though.

Sossiges also I think you have misunderstood how the figures work.

Saying "An estimated 5-10% of people who get diphtheria will die from complications that arise from the condition" is referring to all people who get diptheria.

"by your figures, 5000 out of 157000 died. Just over 3%."
This relates to one specific epidemic in the countries of the former Soviet Union between 1990 and 1998.

That it is 3% (as opposed to 0.0005% or 82%) actually gives me confidence in the 5-10% estimate as it's in the right region.

There may be reasons that that epidemics was not as fatal as other epidemics. Or the fatality figures reported for that epidemic might be off for some reason.

Or it may be that the 5-10% estimate needs to be estimated downwards. (Although i doubt it, it is a possibility).

But even if the fatality rate is "only" 3%, don't you think it's preferable to have a vaccination with only tiny risks, statistically, than risk getting a disease with a 3% mortality rate?! I know which I'd prefer!

Or, if we're talking about under 5s, an estimated 1 in 5 who contract diptheria die

Personally I find that absolutely terrifying.

Have I vaccinated my child to protect him against that threat? Hell yes.

Of course vaccines reduce incidence of diptheria starlight. This is why we vaccinate.

What happened in the former soviet union when diptheria vaccination rates dropped? Diptheria incidence increased dramatically.

StarlightMcKenzie it occurs to me this morning that your way of thinking is a perfect example of what I was trying to say.

You correctly identify that someone with vaccine damage may have problems wider than simply the health risks. You mention that "it coukd plummet your whole family into substantial poverty and the subject of hate crimes."

I don't know much about vaccine damage but I suspect you're right to say that it's "A tiny risk but a severe one."

However you are totally ignoring that fact that many people are disabled as a result of preventable disease - and that they face the exact same risks - poverty and hate crimes.

So the problem you mention is not one which is unique to vaccinations, nor one which not vaccinating will protect you from. In fact the opposite is true - not vaccinating will increase the risk of your DCs suffering disabilities.

Or to put it another way - you are focusing on the risks of vaccines, but ignoring the risks of the diseases that the vaccines prevent!

Hey! I saw that at one point you discussed about GMOs. At first, I was scared that what I might eat, might affect me on the long run, but after doing some research I discovered that there are not any known consequences. I found this blog: foodfrap.wordpress.com/2012/11/11/true-or-false-genetically-modified-tomatoes-a-causea-cure-for-fatal-diseases/comment-page-1/#comment-5, which is quite useful, to say the least. Maybe it will clarify some issues for you. Good day.

Vaccinated 2 kids, third, I delayed till after age 2 and haven't finished-

The reason is that I know THREE families (one is my sister's friend, and I haven't met them), in which a child who was starting to speak had a severe reaction to MMR and became autistic. I know all about the research, but when you have seen a child who is saying "juice", "dada", "ball", etc lose all those words after having a vaccine, it is hard to ignore.

I also know that autism develops at certain ages, and we don't know about the triggers, but this was too much of a creepy coincidence for me.

I know all about the research, but when you have seen a child who is saying "juice", "dada", "ball", etc lose all those words after having a vaccine, it is hard to ignore.

And as well as the vaccine I would bet they

All had milk, bf or formula
All pooed in a nappy
All cried

Just as much evidence that all of those things cause autism.

I haven't had DD (20 months) vaccinated and do not intend to get future child(ren) (DD2 due in just over a month) vaccinated either. So far (thank God) DD has been very healthy and the worst illness she has had is a slight cold - has never even had a raised temperature.

A few reasons fro choosing not to vaccinate, firstly I know a few people whose children have been damaged by vaccination. Like someone said earlier I know a child who developed loads of allergies after getting the MMR and another who suddenly became speech delayed. A friend of mine had the flu jab - she is a healthy 25 year old and she immediately became quite ill and had to take over a week off work.

As a child my Mum tells me I had a bad reaction to my first set of vaccinations and was ill for weeks although thankfully I recovered. I didn't have the MMR and had measles as a child with no ill effects.

Do not like the idea of all the chemicals in the vaccines.

Am suspicious that a lot of pharmacutical companies are more concerned with making money than with the health of our children.

I think it is signofocant that the number of children with autism is on the rise since the increase in vaccination. Interestingly enough, the Amish community in America who do not vaccinate have no cases of autism.

Some vaccines contain material from aborted fetuses. As a Catholic this is something I want to avoid for personal ethical/religious reasons.

I was thinking of starting a thread like this myself actually - I don't want to get into arguments with people who don't agree with our decision not to vaccinate, I just want to share experiences and find out how many other parents have also decided to not vax/partially vax their children.

So to other non vaxing parents:
Tell me about the health of your children - have they had any serious illnesses?
I noticed that an earlier poster mentioned worrying about her child getting tetanus - would appreciate other peoples thoughts on this please.
Have you had a lot of negative reactions from friends about not vaxing - of have you kept it a secret? I have only told a few friends so far.
Have you had any issues when deciding to send your children to nursery and school?

Thank you for that post inadreamworld

I think many people who don't vaccinate share your views and your logic.

I agree. By following these threads, I've come to realise that faith is very important to people who don't vaccinate.

Inadream We've had no issues over a nursery place for our unvaccinated child. They know about it, but haven't questioned it at all.

Faith in what, Jo?

took my DD2 (7) for her pre-school booster this morning after being pressured by my practice nurse. This was due to me taking her to the doctors for a sore toe last week, when the doctor seemed rather vexed and more than slightly concerned she had not seen either of my DDs for 5 years.
Neither child has had MMR, DH will not agree and I can not in all consciousness go against him.
This might answer inadreamworld question about the health of non-vaccinated kids. Neither has had an ear infection, tummy bug or indeed anything more serious than a cold or two and a sore toe. Many friends comment on the health of our DC but had never before considered their lack of intensive vaccinating as babies as a correlating factor. Maybe anecdotal but maybe not.
Perversely my DD2 actually seemed to enjoy her trip to the nurse this morning.
Wish I had read this thread this morning, it may have given me the confidence to turn down her booster.
I had to inform her teacher this morning that she had had some injections in case she had a reaction, and the teacher was shocked and almost mocking when she asked what she had had.
I wish people wouldn't treat those who choose not to vaccinate as is we are ignorant, uneducated loons, akin to handing your child a loaded gun. If the NHS gave parents more choice and access to how and when our DC are vaccinated I believe many more would

Tabitha glad you have had no problems with the nursery.

I think Jo might be referring to the fact that I mentioned one of my (many) reasons for not vaccinating was the fact that I am uncomfortable with the idea that some vaccines use material from aborted fetuses. I do not expect people in general to share my view and this is not a pro life/pro choice thread! As it happens many of my Catholic friends who don't agree with abortion are happy to vaccinate their children. I don't think religious people are any more likely not to vaccinate than atheists.

Drivinmecrazy Interesting. I know a few other families who don't vaccinate and their children do all seem amazingly healthy too. I am convinced over vaccinatiing compromises the immune system. I know a lot of other Mums with children of a similar age to my DD and all of them comment on how unusual it is that she has never had anything worse than a slight cold. They put if down to luck but I think not overloading her system with toxins has a lot to do with it.

I think it is signofocant that the number of children with autism is on the rise since the increase in vaccination.

Well, the number of children with autism is also increasing in line with the number of private TV channels and the use of hand held gaming devices and cell phones.

Interestingly enough, the Amish community in America who do not vaccinate have no cases of autism.

That is absolute hogwash. Amish do get autism imfar.confex.com/imfar/2010/webprogram/Paper7336.html

Some vaccines contain material from aborted fetuses.

That is about as true as to say "carrots contain material from manure". One cell line derived from one aborted fetus in the 1960s is used today to produce rubella virus for the vaccine. The virus is made by the cell culture cells. No cells or tissue go into the vaccine.

I would like to say that I find your attitude very aggressive LeBFG-not very supportive at all.

I wish people wouldn't treat those who choose not to vaccinate as is we are ignorant, uneducated loons, akin to handing your child a loaded gun.

Sorry but some people are uneducated loons.

statements like "I'm not happy with all the chemicals in vaccines" can only be produced by someone uneducated. I am currently sitting here with two liquid chemical cocktails one is a glass of water and the other a cup of coffee.

Later I will be ingesting some more chemicals with the added bonus of a dose of radiation when I have a banana forr breakfast.

Yes I'm pro vaccine, and I have also stated numerous times that some people have very good reasons not to vaccinate but for the general population there are really good reason to vaccinate.

The Amish also vaccinate actually. What they don't do, however, is watch television.

Personally, I'd attribute their lack of autism to no television. After all, there is a direct correlation between hours of tv watched and the incidence of autism (and we all know that correlation = causation), television watching is so dangerous that the American academy of pediatrics recommends that chikdren under 2 don't watch it at all, and I'd bet my bottom dollar that all the research showing that television watching causes autism is being suppressed because there is so much money in television ( just look at the levenson enquiry and tell me the press arent in cahoots with politicians).

even more worryingly, I personally know many children who got sick while watching television and some who even developed allergies after they watched a lot of television. I just think that's too much of a scary coincidence.