Anyone who has a child/children

[holdenmcgroin1979]

that hasn't vaccinated? Starting to think I am the only one as out of my group of friends I am the only one whose children aren't.

That's interesting Elaine. Odd that no such information is given to UK parents.

'behind with vaxed' suggests that you think the US is some sort of gold standard for vaccine schedules Elaine. I'm not sure I agree tbh. Yes, they have more vaccines, that isn't necessarily A Good Thing.

I vaccinated my first fully, my second partially and my third not at all.

I have become progressively anti, the more my first is failed by the government and the NHS.

Different set of priorities, bumbley. They don't worry about cost in the us, that's the individual's problem. As a system, I prefer the nhs. As a parent with good health insurance, I want to fully protect my children with safe and effective vaccines. It's not like they recommend yellow fever and Japanese encephalitis for kids here. But I'm glad my kids are protected against hep a and chickenpox which they wouldn't be according to the uk schedule.

Sorry, the uk does lag behind other developed countries in its vax schedule and the whole Wakefield/mmr debacle has a large part in this IMHO. We should be doing a better job in protecting our kids from preventable disease.

Is that all governments starlight or just the British one?

Not sure what trust in the nhs/govt has got to do with vaccinating since all developed counties recommend vaccinating and all health systems, private or public, the world over provide it.

I don't have a problem with vaccinating, but I have trouble believing that safety comes before money and that money rather than safety influences the governments prefered METHOD of vaccination. Rather than vaccinations themselves iyswim.

And that has nothing to do with Wakefield and everything to do with being failed by a corrupt system in the past in which the NHS played its part.

We shall just have to agree to disagree on that on EB. :) I don't think I'm the only one who thinks the US vaccine schedule is a bit 'busy' but I suppose when there's money to be made from worried parents...

Not vaccinating your DCs is also playing Russian Roulette, with much worse odds than vaccinating! (Assuming you have no existing medical reasons not to vaccinate).

"i would be happier my children fighting of diseases naturally than having it forced upon them."

They stand a better chance of survival and life free from disability vaccinated than not vaccinated. That's the bottom line.

Are you aware that the many of the diseases they are getting vaccinated against are killers?

From the NHS website:

"Measles is a highly infectious viral illness. It can be very unpleasant and possibly lead to serious complications, including blindness and even death."

Diphtheria

"An estimated 5-10% of people who get diphtheria will die from complications that arise from the condition, such as breathing difficulties, inflammation of the heart (myocarditis) or problems with the nervous system.

Before a vaccination programme was introduced in 1940, diphtheria was a very common condition and one of the leading causes of death in children.

The vaccination programme has been very successful. In 2010, there were just eight recorded cases of diphtheria in England and Wales, and no deaths. Diphtheria is a notifiable disease, which means that if a doctor diagnoses the condition, they must tell the local authority.

Even though the incidence of diphtheria in England is low, there's a risk that an outbreak could occur if the number of people who are vaccinated falls below a certain level.

This risk was demonstrated by the epidemic that struck the countries of the former Soviet Union between 1990 and 1998. It resulted in 157,000 cases and 5,000 deaths."

Mumps has a small chance of leading to serious complications:

Rare but potentially serious complications of mumps include:

• a serious brain infection (encephalitis), which occurs once in every 6,000 cases
• permanent hearing loss, which occurs once in every 15,000 cases.

Encephalitis requires emergency admission to an intensive care unit (ICU). Unfortunately, there is currently no treatment to reverse hearing loss.

Whooping Cough

"Babies and young children are usually most severely affected by whooping cough. They are most likely to develop severe complications such as:

• pneumonia, an infection that causes inflammation of the tissues in your lungs

dehydration

• temporary pauses in breathing as a result of severe difficulty with breathing
• weight loss due to excessive vomiting
• seizures (fits)
• low blood pressure, requiring medication
• kidney failure, requiring temporary dialysis
• brain damage, which can occur if breathing difficulties prevent enough oxygen from getting to the brain

However, these complications are rare.

Severe complications such as pneumonia and brain damage can be fatal, although this is extremely rare.

Hib (Haemophilus influenzae type b)

"Hib is a bacterial infection that can cause a number of serious illnesses such as pneumonia or meningitis, especially in young children. Hib infections are preventable by vaccination.

Hib can cause any of the following infections:

• meningitis ? infection of the lining of the brain and spinal cord
• pneumonia ? infection of the lungs
• pericarditis ? infection of the lining surrounding the heart
• epiglottitis ? infection of the epiglottis (flap that covers the entrance to your windpipe)
• septic arthritis ? infection of the joints
• cellulitis ? infection of the skin and underlying tissues

Some of these infections can lead to blood poisoning, which can be fatal.

Many of the children who get Hib infections become very ill and need hospital care."

And of course if your child gets Rubella they risk the lives of the unborn babies of any pregnant women they come across, or birth defects, known as congenital rubella syndrome (CRS).

Congenital rubella syndrome (CRS)

"Congenital rubella syndrome (CRS) can cause the following problems in unborn babies:

• cataracts (cloudy patches in the lens of the eye) and other eye defects
• deafness
• congenital heart disease (where the heart does not develop in the right way)
• a small head compared with the rest of the body, as the brain is not fully developed
• a slower than normal growth rate
• damage to the brain, liver, lungs or bone marrow"

Thought it worth reminding people what you're meant to be vaccinating against, as it's become obvious to me that many of those advocating not giving vaccines to children don't have a real grasp of the danger of the diseases they're meant to prevent.

Vacinnes have risks, sure, but infinitesimal compared to the very real risks of the diseases mentioned above.

Not vaccinating your child (unless they have a real medical reason not to) is recklessly putting your child at risk of awful suffering and death, not to mention the rest of society!

It's more complicated than simply stating that these diseases can be killers. So can others that we don't vaccinate against. So, indeed are these diseases caught be children who ARE vaccinated. Vaccines sometimes don't work, sometimes don't even protect against the current strain of the disease.

The percentages of people in the world killed by certain diseases are affected by the health of the people and their access to sanitation and antidotes. Diphtheria is scary but if caught in time can be treated which is very likely in the UK.

Vaccines DO cause damage to some people. Those people then go onto become vilified by society and labelled scrounges and though poor treatment end up in prison, many of them.

Starlight I thought it worth mentioning as the people I know who are anti-vaccine seem to have done a lot of "research" into the possible side effects of vaccines but are woefully ill-informed about the risks of the actual diseases they're meant to prevent, having done no real research into them - instead basing their knowledge of the severity of them on their own memories of childhood diseases which "weren't that bad". (No shit, you survived! Also the people you knew as a child are not a reliable sample of the population!)

A friend of mine even said she'd rather have tetanus than ecsthma (a side effect of the vaccination)!
She had no idea how dangerous tetanus could be!

Another friend of mine said that she's rather her child fight off the diseases we vaccinate against naturally as "they're not that severe anyway". Again she seemed to have no idea that they could kill.

Thinking your child won't be the unlucky one as they seem healthy, is not actually an effective prevention against killer diseases.

I'm not sure that is true. Those who have not vaccinated that I know have STARTED with the disease and made sure they can live with the risks first. It woukd appear to me to be the logical way to do it. On balance non-vaccers tend to have done a considerable amount of research into their decision compared to vaccers.

Also please don't confuse anti-vaccers with non-vaccers. They really aren't the same thing.

Starlight - I don't know anyone who has become vaccine damaged, vilified by society and then ended up in prison. How many such people are there???

Actually bumbley the CDC makes no money as its a federally funded institution.

My experience is that non-vaxers are generally anti-vaxers to all intents and purposes and that the research they have done is not based on scientific evidence in the least. They've spent a lot of time on the Internet, true, but misinformation abounds and they don't have the scientifcally critical faculty to distinguish between good evidence and misleading information.

The prisons are almost entirely full of people with learning disabilities. Disabilities as a whole are vilified in this country. Therefore the risk of vaccine damage is more than a health risk. It coukd plummet your whole family into substantial poverty and the subject of hate crimes.

A tiny risk but a severe one.

Presumably these people you are Dx with impaired intellect are those you meet on t'internet Elaine !? And who you have never actually met!?

No, I've met many people with learning disabilities. Not one of them is vaccine damaged, quite a few were preventable disease damaged.

In real life starlight, btw.

I don't know anything about vaccine damage and prison.

It is fair to say though that prison is full of people with disabilities. My cousin (a Doctor) was stunned at the high number of people with dyslexia, while working in UK prisons, for example.

However I feel that this is a bit of a red herring as the diseases mentioned can lead to disability, so ending up in prison as a result of the way society treats individuals with disabilities could be an outcome of not being vaccinated also.